Pioneerof the Nile

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  • Paniolo_GalPaniolo_Gal Member
    edited May 2015
    Lucky Pulpit's stud fee is nothing to brag about. He is a regional sire with a fluke in California Chrome.
    Yes...Lucky Pulpit's stud fee is not like stud fees in Kentucky. California stud farms can't justify asking the high Kentucky fees for sure...not for their region.

    Just back tracking...
    Lucky Pulpit's 2015 stud fee at Harris Farms is $10,000 s/n. But back in 2010, his stud fee when he was bred to $8,000 Love The Chase, was only $2,000 s/n...that's a 5x increase! It was a good thing that Love The Chase's first covering by Redattore in 2010 didn't take and they couldn't rebreed her since Radattore had already been sent to Brazil. As a result, DAP bred Love The Chase to Lucky Pulpit instead for her first foal in 2011...California Chrome. :oD

    Not a race fan or breeder but just my 2₵...
    We shouldn't say that California Chrome is a fluke. It is way too early to tell as we only have one race warrior proven on the track out of Love The Chase...but we shall see with 2-year old Hope's Love and Love The Chase's other more recent offspring. They may not earn as much as California Chrome ($6,322,650) but they may be outstanding racers in their own right as well. Time will tell...let's wait before we make a judgement call. :oD
  • KMMKMM Member
    Won't press my point, but will just add that $10,000 is a low stud fee. Lucky Pulpit is unlikely to attract top notch mares, no matter his price. CC is not enough proof that LC can deliver.
  • Won't press my point, but will just add that $10,000 is a low stud fee. Lucky Pulpit is unlikely to attract top notch mares, no matter his price. CC is not enough proof that LC can deliver.
    Perhaps not "top notch" mares from Kentucky for sure. But outstanding mares based in California or nearby regions perhaps. Just my defense on the opinion that Lucky Pulpit is not a good stallion.

    LOL! that's what they initial said about Secretariat...until they found that he was an excellent broodmare sire.
  • KMMKMM Member
    Secretariat got the best mares from the get go; that is why he was a good broodmare sire. The top notch CA mares will get shipped to best stallions for them, not limited to sires standing in CA. Breeding considerations are many. I don't know what LP's book was this year, but I seriously wonder if owners will be able to maintain stud fee. Of course, my opinion.
  • That's kind of what I was thinking. These people laying huge offers for Chrome's dam. She has four foals but Chrome has been the only one to race at that time. The sister wasn't even in training.
  • KMMKMM Member
    Not familiar with big offers for Love the Chase. Can someone inform me?
  • KMMKMM Member
    I know that I have been commenting on Lucky Pulpit's pedigree, that it is of a different stature than the stallions we consider for Zenyatta. But that is the point. These two markets are very different. I admire and salute CC's accomplishments and that he came from off of the radar.
  • KMMKMM Member
    Sorry. Wrong thread. Should have been in CC or LP thread. I will leave it here. Oh well. Posting from phone.
  • <<blockquote rel="KMM">Not familiar with big offers for Love the Chase. Can someone inform me?
    It was in an article somewhere that after Chrome won Derby they had some really nice offers for her. Strange I thought since he's her only foal of racing age.
  • EliRoseEliRose Member
    Lucky Pulpit's stud fee is still only $10,000. It is unlikely that he contributed all that much to Chrome's success. Love the Chase's foals are much better looking than the majority of Lucky Pulpit's by other mares. DAP supposedly turned down $2.1 for her before the Derby. Take a look http://www.horsenation.com/

    It is unfair to compare PoTN to Lucky Pulpit, as PoTN could actually be an outstanding sire. American Pharoah's not his only good foal. Remember Cairo Prince?
  • KMMKMM Member
    Pornile already outstanding sire. LP has no contest different class. Different market. PoN is very high class.
  • KMMKMM Member
    I think combination of LtC and LP produced CC. No guarantee it will happen again.
  • EliRoseEliRose Member
    "Could be" was the wrong choice in words. I mean in terms of PoTN rivaling my main man Tapit.
  • Nice Number is running May 23rd in the Alachua Handicap. She will be ridden by Jesus Rios. She is trained by Brad Cox and owned by Right Time Racing LLC.
  • KMMKMM Member
    I have given way to people's opinions who know regional CA marketmarket better than I do in Lucky pulpit thread ( somewhat). :)
  • I'm going to go on record and say that before American Pharaoh: I'd never been too terribly impressed by Pioneerof the Nile as a sire. But I think every stallion, at least ONCE in his lifetime, has produced a proverbial "star" above all others they have sired. And I think the better the stallion, the brighter that star shines over other stars produced by other stallions. And for awhile this boosts their reputation.... But if they stop producing those caliber horses, that reputation quickly fades. But I've noticed that most TC Hopefuls in recent years, have been by stallions who are otherwise not noteworthy stallions-- at least, for me.
    Pioneerof the Nile is one of those stallions who came off to me as kind of "Meh."; didn't expect much of him, despite his popularity. Imagine my surprise when American Pharaoh, a son of the average looking, relatively unassuming Pioneerof the Nile; won the Kentucky Derby.

    So anything is possible. And I congratulate both Lucky Pulpit AND Pioneerof the Nile: as they are now two Proud Papas of Dual Classic winners.
  • Catch My Drift is running May 24th in the Monmouth Beach Stakes. She will be ridden by Kendrick Carmouche. She is trained by Chad Brown and owned by Hidden Brook Farm.
  • EliRoseEliRose Member
    I'm going to go on record and say that before American Pharaoh: I'd never been too terribly impressed by Pioneerof the Nile as a sire. But I think every stallion, at least ONCE in his lifetime, has produced a proverbial "star" above all others they have sired. And I think the better the stallion, the brighter that star shines over other stars produced by other stallions. And for awhile this boosts their reputation.... But if they stop producing those caliber horses, that reputation quickly fades. But I've noticed that most TC Hopefuls in recent years, have been by stallions who are otherwise not noteworthy stallions-- at least, for me.
    Pioneerof the Nile is one of those stallions who came off to me as kind of "Meh."; didn't expect much of him, despite his popularity. Imagine my surprise when American Pharaoh, a son of the average looking, relatively unassuming Pioneerof the Nile; won the Kentucky Derby.

    So anything is possible. And I congratulate both Lucky Pulpit AND Pioneerof the Nile: as they are now two Proud Papas of Dual Classic winners.
    I'm sorry but this is very odd to me . . .

    Pioneerof the Nile has been hot since he first hit the shed. He has absolutely fabulous conformation. Better than most stallions standing right now IMO. He was the favorite in his Derby, which he came second in. He made well over a million dollars. PotN sired American Pharoah in his second season, and Cairo Prince and Social Inclusion in his first. AP is not a one-off, and I doubt he'll be the last Classic winner PotN gets (I may have just jinxed him.)

    Pioneerof the Nile is not a Lucky Pulpit by any means. He is most certainly noteworthy, in any case.
  • I repeat: I never thought of him as a standout among sires. This does not mean he is a bad sire. Opinion is not fact, but as I've mentioned: my attitude has changed. Pioneerof the Nile has earned my respect, after American Pharaoh's win in the Kentucky Derby. But before this, I did not think much of him.... Mostly because I thought he'd already had 4-5 crops, and nothing to show for it, had no idea this was his 2nd crop. I also had no idea that Cairo Prince OR Social Inclusion were sired by Pioneerof the Nile. Also, I did not say that American Pharaoh would be his only classic winner, I said that "Every sire has a proverbial 'star' above all others they have sired.". This does not denote that American Pharaoh will be his ONLY classic winner, merely that he is, and will probably remain, one of Pioneerof the Nile's best progeny (Also note that I said "AT LEAST", meaning a stallion can have more than one "star"). My post was purely (admittedly incorrect) opinion, and I do not expect anyone to take my words to heart. I apologize if it comes off as irrefutable fact, I assure you it is not.
  • EliRoseEliRose Member
    Rereading my post I was definitely a little too rough - very sorry about that!! I think you ended up being my outlet for several posts I have been reading (not on this forum.) It was certainly not meant as a personal attack.

    It's just a personal pet peeve of mine when horses like PotN are put into the same category as horses like Lucky Pulpit/Boundary etc. He's more of a Malibu Moon/Medaglia d'Oro/Tapit type in the making.
  • Oh undoubtedly, if he keeps up like this. But for what it's worth, I've never lumped Pioneerof the Nile together with Lucky Pulpit. I was simply congratulating both on being the Proud Papas of Dual Classic, Kentucky Derby & Preakness winners. And Pioneerof the Nile still has a chance to slap "Sire of a Triple Crown winner" on his resume, Lucky Pulpit does not =)
  • EliRoseEliRose Member
    Oh yes, I know you didn't! However I've absolutely been hearing that from some of the handicapping blogs.
  • edited May 2015
    But I think every stallion, at least ONCE in his lifetime, has produced a proverbial "star" above all others they have sired.
    I politely disagree. Not every stallion produces at least one well-known star (which is what the word proverbial means). Does every stallion who has at least sired two offspring have one offspring that could be ranked above the other? Yes, but that probably only means something to the owners and no one else. To say that every stallion will sire at least one well known or famous horse is not an accurate statement in my opinion.
  • QueenZFan22QueenZFan22 Member
    edited May 2015
    Killer Partner is running May 30th in the Indy Star Stakes. She will be ridden by Albin Jimenez. She is trained by Mike Maker and owned by Skychai Racing LLC.
  • Lady Bling is running May 30th in the Penn Oaks. She will be ridden by Elvis Trujillo. She is trained by David Donk and owned by John Behrendt.
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