Ziconic

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  • Yes, in some cases it does follow a line of top mares. Vertigineux is so designated but I don't think any of her daughters are (yet) and her dam (For the Flag) isn't. On Tapit's side, AP Indys dam Weekend Surprise, her dam Lassie Dear and Slew's dam My Charmer all have the *. Again, on the Tapit side, his granddam Ruby Slippers is *, her dam Moon Glitter is * and her dam Foggy Note is also *.
  • EriNCEriNC Member
    edited April 2014
    according to this article there is many ways a mare can become a reines de course mare. The article lists:Sometimes she is a veritable force throughout the breed like *La Troienne, Mumtaz Mahal, Frizette, or Quiver and other times she is a more recent matron who has shown a proclivity for stamping her family with certain characteristics. For example, "sire source" mares include Plucky Liege, dam of four Chefs-de-Race (stallion equivalent) and Lady Josephine, whose daughters and granddaughters gave us *Nasrullah, *Royal Charger, *Mahmoud, Tudor Minstrel and Fair Trial, while other mares stamp their families with a decided female sex bias. These include Bourtai and her Broodmare of the Year daughters Delta and Levee, Banquet Bell, who gave us Cum Laude Laurie; Luiana and Maud Muller; and Sunday Evening who got Prayer Belle, Home By Dark, and Time For Bed.

    Some mares influence their families with speed, as Too Bald and *Papila did, while others like Teresina and Quiver tend to produce rather stouter relations. And some mares have made such a huge international impact - Pretty Polly and Centerbury Pilgrim are good examples - that to not include them would be be to render the series meaningless.

    Despite the pronounced characteristics of some families, the name Reine-de-Course basically stands for quality. These mares have no numbers or formulas attached like Chefs-de-Race, nor will they ever have.
    http://www.reines-de-course.com/about_reines.htm

    According to this I would say that Zenyatta has a good shot of being added to the list. However It will probably be far in the future when Coz, Zi, and future offspring are breeding. Furthermore Zenyatta has 11 Reines De course mares in her pedigree.

    one last thing (I promise) if Zenyatta is added to Reines De Course unless she has an exceptional filly who produces exceptional fillies she would be a "Sire Source" mare
  • Thanks for putting in the details of a Reines De Course mare Joanna_TX & EriNC.

    Also...Mary from our Forum has a nice series that reviews blue hens and reines de course mares in her thread...
    "It is broodmares that produce more than one outstanding foal that are held in the highest regard. Those that produce several graded stakes winners become known as “blue hens,” a term used for mares that produce several successful racehorses. Often, these mares become influential in the dam lines of Thoroughbreds and if they remain very effective, they could become a Reine De Course (Queen of the Turf) mare, which is a broodmare who becomes very famous, influential, and important in the pedigrees of Thoroughbreds. Such mares include the greats La Troienne, Alcibiades, and Somethingroyal. We have seen many magnificent broodmares as of late and I have chosen nine of them to feature."
    Here's one of her articles she posted in the forum on this subject:
    http://pastthegrandstand.blogspot.com/2012/07/recent-remarkable-broodmares.html
  • KalarKalar Member
    edited April 2014
    Thanks for putting in the details of a Reines De Course mare Joanna_TX & EriNC.

    Also...Mary from our Forum has a nice series that reviews blue hens and reines de course mares in her thread...
    "It is broodmares that produce more than one outstanding foal that are held in the highest regard. Those that produce several graded stakes winners become known as “blue hens,” a term used for mares that produce several successful racehorses. Often, these mares become influential in the dam lines of Thoroughbreds and if they remain very effective, they could become a Reine De Course (Queen of the Turf) mare, which is a broodmare who becomes very famous, influential, and important in the pedigrees of Thoroughbreds. Such mares include the greats La Troienne, Alcibiades, and Somethingroyal. We have seen many magnificent broodmares as of late and I have chosen nine of them to feature."
    Here's one of her articles she posted in the forum on this subject:
    http://pastthegrandstand.blogspot.com/2012/07/recent-remarkable-broodmares.html
    Oooh! Thanks for the link!!! It always irks me when racing articles or commentators leave out the dams, particularly when they are great themselves or their lineage. Men act like horses or people, too, for that matter, get only the good stuff from the sire and if they're crummy, it's the mare's (mom's) fault. I'll be so glad when that particular 'neuronet' fades out of the gene pool.
  • EriNCEriNC Member

    Oooh! Thanks for the link!!! It always irks me when racing articles or commentators leave out the dams, particularly when they are great themselves or their lineage. Men act like horses or people, too, for that matter, get only the good stuff from the sire and if they're crummy, it's the mare's (mom's) fault. I'll be so glad when that particular 'neuronet' fades out of the gene pool.
    Horse racing may join the times eventually in the 17- and 1800 hundreds it was believed that any genetic defect or other problem came from the mother. Come to think of it they inbred too. Maybe horseracing should look to the mistakes of human breeding to correct its current conformation, and stamina problems.
  • EriNCEriNC Member
    edited April 2014

    Oooh! Thanks for the link!!! It always irks me when racing articles or commentators leave out the dams, particularly when they are great themselves or their lineage. Men act like horses or people, too, for that matter, get only the good stuff from the sire and if they're crummy, it's the mare's (mom's) fault. I'll be so glad when that particular 'neuronet' fades out of the gene pool.
    Horse racing may join the times eventually. in the 1700 and 1800 hundreds it was believed that any genetic defect or other problem came from the mother. Come to think of it they inbred too. Maybe horseracing should look to the mistakes of human breeding to correct its current conformation, and stamina problems.

    I dont know why this posted twice
  • There was an interesting study performed by the University of Louisville that looked at breeding factors that might predict future racing success. They found that the best predictor of racing success is racing class of the dam, and that's with correction for class of the sire. I've seen a couple of less formal studies that also support the notion that high performing race mares do well as broodmares. So Z has an excellent chance of becoming a high-class producer. (But we already knew that about her!)
  • Hurray for the girls! Thanks to all who contributed to this little discussion; that was fun and informative!
  • Here's Mary's part two series of recent reines de course mares...
    http://pastthegrandstand.blogspot.com/2013/07/recent-remarkable-broodmares-part-two.html
    I thought I'd keep the series together so part one is below...
    http://pastthegrandstand.blogspot.com/2012/07/recent-remarkable-broodmares.html
  • KalarKalar Member
    I must admit that I have seen a few faint signs of 'dam' acknowledgement of late. Maybe the times they are a-changing. 'Bout freakin' time.
  • EriNCEriNC Member
    edited April 2014
    I must admit that I have seen a few faint signs of 'dam' acknowledgement of late. Maybe the times they are a-changing. 'Bout freakin' time.
    a lot of that is just interest in the mare, or the mare is better known then the sire. The public has been showing an interest in knowing about the Dam so the powers that be are obliging
  • He has always looked mature beyond his years and very focused. I think mama told him a few things that make him a winner...in every sense of the word!
  • Has everyone seen this photo of Ziconic? Stunning.

  • Has everyone seen this photo of Ziconic? Stunning.

    That's the photo they are currently using in pedigree query. Yes! He's listed on PQ already!
  • He is sooooo gorgeous.
  • Yeah I've seen that photo before. I would LOVE to see a new photo of him without his winter coat. I cant wait.
  • Agree...we need pix without the fuzz, tho from recent ones with Jerry, looks like the lad is (or has been) maybe shedding some. I sort of get the feeling both Coz and Zi are real characters.
  • Crazy4ZCrazy4Z Member
    edited April 2014
    Agree...we need pix without the fuzz, tho from recent ones with Jerry, looks like the lad is (or has been) maybe shedding some. I sort of get the feeling both Coz and Zi are real characters.
    I think you're right. Afterall, John said that he didn't "train" Zenny...he learned how to get along with her! She probably shared many stories with her boys and I think they paid attention!
  • I love that picture of Ziconic in the snow. It's so iconic!
  • EriNCEriNC Member
    edited April 2014
    this is my favorite picture of him. he has lost his winter coat in this one. it is in the blog post about his name
    http://www.brisnet.com/pictures/ziconicjuly2013kyleacebo2.jpg
    actually never mind this was taken before winter
  • Still cant fit his head over that fence tho lol
  • I was looking for a same age photo of Coz but couldn't find one. I think Coz was taller as a yearling.
  • EriNCEriNC Member
    edited April 2014
    ok couple of things to keep in mind here. 1. the photos may not be the same size. 2. Coz is trotting with his head lowered, while Zi is standing with his head raised. 3. horses are measured from the ground to the withers (the part where the neck meet the barrel of the horse.)
    photo cozversuszi2_zps526116a3.png

    looking at this I would have to say that Ziconic is a better looking horse. Zi's picture was taken Feb 2014 Coz's in April 2013.
  • They look so different from each other. To me Ziconic is standing and holding his head just like Zenyatta.
  • EriNCEriNC Member
    also Zi has a longer neck, and is more compact this could just be because he is standing while Coz is trotting. These are the closest pics in age I could find. also Zi looks to have more weight on him than Coz.
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