Lucky Pulpit - Sire of California Chrome



  • Lucky Pulpit's stud fee may be nothing to brag about and, yes, he is a regional stallion but with some better mares visiting him he just may surprise...

  • KMMKMM Member
    Trying to put into context, the comments regarding stud fees. Lucky Pulpit doesn't have much of a record, except for CC. I am trying to put some realism in discussion, as in, don't get your hopes up. Lucky Pulpit is unlikely to get top notch mares; owners have better and more proven choices. Why would they take that financial risk?
  • carolinarkansascarolinarkansas hot springs, arkansasMember
    He does have at least one other decent son in Rousing Sermon...and if the CC siblings do least half the credit goes to Love the Chase
  • Who needs realism when talking about speculation - unfortunately at times, my glass is always half full. :-) Actually, if I was a California breeder, I don't believe $10,000 would be a financial risk versus the possible reward.
  • KMMKMM Member
    With a very good mare, you would not take a chance with basically, an unproven sire, for the most part. Lucky Pulpit would be a financial risk to invest in at this point. It is not about what his stud fee is, it is about the racing prospects of the foal, the outcome. So no, I don't think Lucky Pulpit overall is a good investment as a sire, no matter his stud fee. And I don't think he will attract a lot of top notch mares. Again, my opinion.
  • edited May 2015
    This is a good is discussion, one of my favorite subjects of conversation.

    I don’t believe Lucky Pulpit will be able to maintain that $10k if he doesn’t start siring more stakes winners. Even if all Love the Chase’s foals become stakes horses that is not going to be sufficient to keep Lucky at $10k. A stallion can’t make his living on one mare.

    While $10k is pocket change in Kentucky, it is a substantial investment for the California breeder and would have weeded out most mares who are only “worthy” of a $2,500 investment. But you have to realize that mares going to a $10k Stallion are highly unlikely to be sent to the likes of Tapit, Pioneer of the Nile, Malibu Moon, etc. This is where Lucky has to prove himself like Cee’s Tizzy. We know Cee’s Tizzy clicked with Cee’s Song for the full siblings Tiznow, Tizbud, Budroyale, Tizdubai and full sisters, now exceptional broodmares, Tizsweet, Tizamazing, and Tizso. But Cee’s Tizzy also sired over 30 stakes caliber horses out of other mares, including Gourmet Girl, Champion older female. Lucky is going to have to show he can do the same.

    I do believe Lucky probably got his best book of mares last year. That means they were foaled this year and won’t start until 2017. Did he get another “good” book of mares this year, better than in years previous? Most likely. But he is going to need some good horses to emerge before 2017. The 2015 two year-old racing season has started off nice for him. He had a good debut winner at Santa Anita on May 14. Faith Pacer won her debut in a 4 ½F Ca-bred MSW. She earned $33,600, and the $2,500 stud fee, at the time of her breeding, would seem to have been a very good investment and maybe even a good investment if the stud fee had been $10,000.

    She is owned by Mr. and Mrs. Larry D. Williams. I mention this because they are the owners of Lucky Pulpit (or were back in 2012). I like it when owners of a stud show real support and try to kick-start their stallion's career. Back in 2012 they supported him by sending their stakes winning mare Lady Railrider to him. Lady Railrider won stakes at 2, 3, and 4, including the California Cup Matron, Pacific Heights Stakes twice, and the Work the Crowd Stakes. A consistent performer, she was on the board in 26 of 35 lifetime starts and earned $603,041. Lady Railrider just may be the mare with the best race record ever bred to Lucky. The resultant foal is two year-old Halo Darlin. Halo Darlin has had two recorded workouts at Santa Anita this year. Here’s hoping this filly proves that Lucky can sire a good one when bred to a nice classy race mare.
  • agree @Especially_Horses, even if Chrome's full sibs all become winners. He needs more winners from other mares or that fee is going to drop back down.
  • KMMKMM Member
    Good points Especially horses. And we are basically talking about different markets. Lucky Pulpit's potential book is very different than the stallions we to for Zenyatta. I think that is where the discussions go awry. We should give Lucky Pulpit his due in his appropriate market; it is unfair to compare him and his prospects to the Bernardinis and other proven class stallions. Can L C be as good as Unusual Heat or other top CA stallions? Don't know enough to comment.
  • Putting it all together is seems that if $10,000 is a hefty stud fee in California then why would a California breeder pack his mare off to Kentucky with the massive expense of transport, stud free, boarding, etc. Stay in the regional market and hope for the best that's what I'd do.
  • KMMKMM Member
    Depends on the class of the mare. Beholder would be shipped to be bred in Kentucky if she wasn't already there. What do you think the differences in the amounts of stud fees reflect? Price reflects quality and success of sire.
  • Huh, price reflects quality and success of a sire, I didn't realize that, thank you for bringing that to my attention...
  • KMMKMM Member
    Sometimes stating the obvious makes the point.
  • Okay, I've had dinner and a glass of wine, I will state that my response above was tongue-in-cheek. I know you've said you are an economist and have things to teach us. Well, I'm only a lowly archaeologist, with a BA and MA, who is always looking to dig things up. So teach me the obvious basics...
  • KMMKMM Member
    My comments weren't meant to be sarcastic. I think you already know basics from your posts. I have the degrees too, and hope that I did not offend you. Different markets for different horses. I think we agree that Lucky Pulpit is a regional sire and the horses we talk about for Z are in a different class. This is my opinion only: I don't think LP has even proven his worth for$10,000 fee. Now again, my opinion, I think CC was a one off for LP. I think his fee will go down after the crops bred when he had his higher fee, get to the track. He will not get the class of mares like Z. A few notches down. I hope he vets some decent ones and proves me wrong. Horse breeding has a very low average of success even for the best of the best. He is just not at the top. Maybe someday. But it is not all speculation, which I am sure you know. Thoroughbred breeding does not have a high return on investment. The people playing at the top rungs are for the 99% part very rich.
  • "Sometimes stating the obvious makes the point" - KMM, you are such obvious fun. Now, I'm stating the obvious, this discussion is over.
  • KMMKMM Member
    OK not sure how to take your comment. You seem offended, but Icannot fix that. All I can say is oh well. Hope I have not ruffled your feathers. We post what we post. I don't know where I went astray with you.
  • KMMKMM Member
    Tell me if you want. I am open to discussion.
  • KMMKMM Member
    Drink your wine, and think about issues you want to raise
    Open to listening. Emotional response does not clarify issues.
  • KMMKMM Member
    I am open yo be considered in not the best light
  • After a glass pinot grigio (a wine glass, not a beer stein) an hour and a half ago I have an extremely emotional response. I find your posts condescending at times. That's it ...
  • KMMKMM Member
    O k . I am listening. Will try to make sure that tne tone to sound is neutral. I sure don't mean to sound condescending. I am not an expert and do not profess to be one . I have worked at a small breeding farm, I have shown thoroughbreds in dressage and eventing, I have worked with foals and prepping for sales, I have been jump judge for eventing. I have hot walked mares for breeding, I have race trainers who are friends, I have worked at barn to feed and blanket 50 plus horses to work off board .in Past for two mares. So yes I have some experience. Enough about me. And you... Why are you making flak?
  • You think I'm making exploding shells...absolutely not - I never have and never will. I will raise the white flag and propose a truce fire. I applaud your curriculum vitae of expertise with horses.
  • KMMKMM Member
    Don't get your explanations. Maybe it is not about me. Don't want to get in struggle but to understand. Will make sure future interactions are neutral. My apologies if you were offended. Not my purpose. Some times posting leaves out full meanings. My style is not to offend people, but to bring them to my point of view with convincing arguments. You seem to be one I cannot convince, and that is fine. K
  • KMMKMM Member
    Bottom line is it doesn't matter about opinions. Nobody wins. If you felt I was condescending in my posts, I am sorry, I did not mean to be. As a writer here I have been perceived to be absolutist, I.e. no room for other opinions. I don't want to be perceived that way. Given that, I have my opinions and hope that they are received in the spirit that they are given, which is not always perceived. K
  • Why do you feel you have to bring someone to your point of view with, what you say are, convincing arguments? What does that bring you? You can't convince me on some topics, so what, there are conflicting opinions on everything imaginable.
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