• Yep, I fully expect that Pharoah will NOT run in the classic if she is in it. I like the "tricking" them idea.
  • So let's write her people....
  • Really, you are that cynical about Baffert and Zayat? Hope it is not true. Would like to see stellar cast in BCC; including B and AP.
  • I am that cynical. Haha! If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to apologize.
  • Why is there so much hate for AP on these boards? He's a Triple Crown winner--one of only twelve in history. He has already proven himself. Beholder is an amazing horse too (hasn't won outside of CA though and you could question how the shipping will play on her for the Classic--and AP really). However, Baffert and Zayat aren't going to single her out of a strong field. Honor Code, Liam's Map, Frosted, Keen Ice? A combination of those horses alone, not factoring in Beholder, could be enough to make them worried and ultimately do in AP. They aren't going to single a horse out and not run in a $5 million race just because that one horse is running. She could have a bad day like AP at the Travers. The shipping could get to her. You never know with horses; they aren't machines. Anyway my ultimate point is, like I said, they aren't going to chicken out of the Classic just because Beholder is running. There are plenty of other horses to worry about.
  • Cynical? Absolutely! Is it better to be politically correct and ignore the truth about the situation? How wouldn't want to see the two of them in the same race... along with HC, F, KI, L's M? Except Baffert and Zayat? Let's face it, the only way they could see it as a winning situation is if they win. And that's definitely not a given.
  • whoodlerwhoodler Member
    edited September 2015
    Some years back, I had to do a public apology to Nick Zito about the TC/running fresh horses in the Belmont. Not that he knew my uninformed opinion or would have cared if he had known. But fair is fair and I felt I had to own up to being "wrong." I still have the same opinion of trainers who do it, but I now know they are not somehow circumventing any rules. Live and learn.

    Based on everything I "know" about them, no apology to B/Z will be necessary. IF they run AmP against Beholder it will be because they can't think of any possibly believable reason not to.
  • @Lioness, I do not HATE American Pharoah and said earlier that I thought he deserved HOY and I still think if he loses the classic, he deserves HOY. Absolutely he deserves it. The first Triple Crown winner in 37 years!? He better win HOY. And, actually, there is no horse that I hate now or ever. I am cynical of his connections and I make no apology for that. It's not about the horse.

  • @louisecastello I was not pointing out you in that statement. I was making a general claim after seeing many posts over many weeks on here. And it's not hate in a "people hate AP and want to see him go down" way, but in the critical sense where people downplay his accomplishments, criticize, and belittle him in almost every sense.
  • Lioness your observations are valid (especially about Beholder shipping. )Like I said, I'm not an AmP fan and after waiting so long for another TC winner, it hurts me that I'm not. I think he was the best of his peers the first half of the year. Colts mature at different rates and now some others have caught up with and maybe surpassed him. Also, for one thing, the TC campaign may have taken its toll (rather than "he just had an off day") and for another, now everyone knows how to beat him. But he did what he did and that is good enough, in my opinion, for HOY.

    Beholder, on the other hand, just keeps getting better and better. Next year, she'll probably take on Usain Bolt.
  • 20 starts, 15 wins, 3 places, and 0 shows; > 4 million in earnings. Not too bad!
  • IMO Pharoah is still much the best of the 3 yo colts, at least right now. I don't understand how someone could think he's NOT better than the rest - did Keen Ice get in front in the Travers? Yes, but I still don't think he's as good as Pharoah. Next year maybe. And the Travers really tired out the poor boy.

    Frosted's PA Derby definitely flatters American Pharoah, too. However I really doubt the 3 yo class are going to be the big threats come BCC.

    Beholder is absolutely fantastic though. And hopefully she'll have another shot at HOTY next year ;) Honor Code might be sticking around too.
  • Of course AP will be HOY. Beholder will end up having 3 Eclipse awards for 3 different years.:)
  • 20 starts, 15 wins, 3 places, and 0 shows; > 4 million in earnings. Not too bad!
    If she were a colt with that record, her earnings would be more than double that.

  • She has not raced out of CA much, but she won the Kentucky Oaks G1 in 2014 at Belmont. K
  • She has not raced out of CA much, but she won the Kentucky Oaks G1 in 2014 at Belmont. K
    Uh, she was second in the Kentucky Oaks at Churchill Downs.

  • whoodlerwhoodler Member
    edited September 2015
    Thanks, both of you. But 2014???
    I didn't know she had not run outside CA and in the belief that "sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander," it really bothered me... not as much as it did with Shared Belief, but it was a concern. Glad she has gone... and competed... elsewhere.
  • Sarinne is right. It was not her best race. But I think she is like Z. Will be competitive on other surfaces. K Z raced the majority of her career in CA.
  • Majority is one thing. 100% is another.
    California is rather isolated... nothing close by, unlike the mid-west and east where it is a hop-skip-and-jump to other (out-of-state) tracks.
  • I personally, have no doubts about her! :)
  • The voice of experience.
  • Whoodler, you are sending zingers my way. :)
  • Yes. Anyone with any experience... like just breathing... knows there is doubt about everything. Any horse's performance in any race on any day is rife with doubt.
    ; )
  • You are impugning my enthusiasm for her--kind of snarky isn't it?
  • Boy oh boy...what a classic it's shaping up to be. We still have a ways to go and the jgc this weekend, but man. Just imagine the rock fight down the stretch with liams map, the pharo and beholder. Yikes...
    If honor code stays in form he'll be the waiting to pounce.
    As far as travel is concerned. Gary feels she can travel just fine and has been the victim of circumstances each time things went sideways. Injuries and sickness.
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