Horses in Dressage

kyleakylea Administrator
This discussion was created from comments split from: Cozmic One – The Racehorse.
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  • The ultimate...totilas at his best......

  • The ultimate...totilas at his best......
    If I wasn't at work I'd be shouting my praise to God for creating such an amazing and exquisite horse. As it was I was praising the Creator in my heart while holding my breath. I am in awe.
  • Wow, he takes my breath away. I'm in awe, too! Stunning horse.
  • Totilas is injured again, this was a few months ago. Hoepfully he is healed by now. He has a piece of equipment called a Rolkur or Rollkur, not sure of spelling. It is used to make the horse arch its neck, some cases it restricts proper breathing ability.
  • Absolutely beautiful! Gave me chills. Better than Dancing With the Stars!!
  • Totilas is injured again, this was a few months ago. Hoepfully he is healed by now. He has a piece of equipment called a Rolkur or Rollkur, not sure of spelling. It is used to make the horse arch its neck, some cases it restricts proper breathing ability.
    Rolkur is a technique, not an individual piece of equipment.

  • Was rolkur being used in the video Kathleen posted?
  • Rolkur is extreme flexion of the horses neck - sometimes to the point where his chin hits his chest. I do believe it was being used although not as extreme as this..
    image
  • Wow, that looks awful. Thanks for explaining it PlainBays. Was rolkur at all connected to Totilas' most recent injury, or was it something completely different?
  • I think his injury is in a leg
  • Here is his injury, and last year Totilas twisted a foot while breeding a dummy for semen collection

    http://horsetalk.co.nz/2014/08/21/injury-forces-totilas-weg/#axzz3GAnpa9tk
  • Rolkur is much the same as any other 'extreme' in other horse disciplines, such as the Big Lick, Peanut Rolling, Polling. Taking a desired trait in the show ring for that discipline and exaggerating it to the point of making it abuse for the horse to get an extreme.

    This is why I said that until we can remove the human cruelty factor out of the equation, any tool can be abused.

    Dressage at it's most basic is to see the horse light on his front end, engaged from his hindquarters, submissive and calm to the bit. With big, long horses like Zenyatta and Ebby (possibly CoZ some day) employing the fundamental desired attributes of dressage, light in the front, balance from the rear, work with the rider's hands don't fight it, are tools to help get a well balanced racehorse.
  • Rolkur is much the same as any other 'extreme' in other horse disciplines, such as the Big Lick, Peanut Rolling, Polling. Taking a desired trait in the show ring for that discipline and exaggerating it to the point of making it abuse for the horse to get an extreme.

    This is why I said that until we can remove the human cruelty factor out of the equation, any tool can be abused.

    Dressage at it's most basic is to see the horse light on his front end, engaged from his hindquarters, submissive and calm to the bit. With big, long horses like Zenyatta and Ebby (possibly CoZ some day) employing the fundamental desired attributes of dressage, light in the front, balance from the rear, work with the rider's hands don't fight it, are tools to help get a well balanced racehorse.
    Very well said Zenyen
  • Paniolo_GalPaniolo_Gal Member
    edited October 2014
    It saddens me when I look back at this video of Edward Gal and Moorlands Totilas...they were a true team! Too bad the owners succumbed to money and sold Totilas to Germany (I think that was the country) and this remarkable partnership ended. Gal was truly heartbroken.

    In my honest opinion, Totilas never could perform at his best after this split...he looked under stress with his new German rider I think the rider's name was Rath(?) Seems like Totilas is not a happy horse with his new owners.

    btw...does anyone know how Totilas is doing since his leg injury in the breeding barn last year when they were collecting his semen? Sorry went off topic just now. :o(

    Oh...just caught up with the earlier postings regarding Toto's (aka Totilas) leg injury. :oP

    Yes...we need a new thread for discussions on dressage...checking with Kylea right now.
  • caseycasey any racetrack with camera in handMember
    Was rolkur being used in the video Kathleen posted?
    No, rollkur is illegal during a test, however it is used to extreme by some unethical trainers in training. Some riders will use rollkur during the warm up for a brief time to help stretch the neck. In the test, Totilas was on the bit, very uphill in his carriage and his head was on the vertical. In rollkur, the head is behind the vertical.
  • VA_in_CAVA_in_CA Member
    edited October 2014
    Wonder what happened to my post suggesting we needed a new discussion group re dressage.

    Never mind. I found it, still over in the Coz, the Racehorse thread.
  • edited October 2014
    I love dressage it is such a cool sport to watch and to try to do with a highly trained horse. I could of trained Trigger to do so when he was young but he is stubborn like a mule so that would never of work out
  • Here's an article on the head position in dressage: http://www.thehorse.com/articles/34714/do-professionals-judge-horse-behavior-like-scientists?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=welfare-industry&utm_campaign=10-16-2014



    If a person wants a horse with a high arched neck and vertical head carriage, why don't they just get a Morgan? That head carriage is natural for them. Here's a picture of a Morgan who has never been subjected to any training on how to hold his head because he is only 10 days old in this picture.

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    It's Rowdy. And here is a picture of his sire, showing that an adult Morgan looks fine without the exaggerated downward-looking head. This is a Western class, and this natural look appeals more to me than that painful-looking unnatural head carriage seen in some dressage events.

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
  • I heard about a Morgan who's doing pretty well at Devon.

    I'm probably biased, but I've followed a few Haflingers in their dressage careers. My favorites are Maximotion WSF, Starwars TOF and Avanti (with a special connection for the last as I got to meet him when I visited a Haflinger breeding farm in the Lexington area a few years back)

    Just watching either Maximotion schooling 4th Level



    or Starwars TOF at the Grand Prix level



    ... give me hope that someday, we can get somewhere the more I work with Mitch.

    Although I'm terribly tempted to try driving dressage too.
  • KMMKMM Member
    Not many do rolkur. Under investigation by fei. Hope they institute even higher standard. The top of poll I to have been trained should be the line from the bit to be straight. Too lower should not be correct for dressage.
  • KMMKMM Member
    You go zen.
  • caseycasey any racetrack with camera in handMember
    If a person wants a horse with a high arched neck and vertical head carriage, why don't they just get a Morgan? That head carriage is natural for them. Here's a picture of a Morgan who has never been subjected to any training on how to hold his head because he is only 10 days old in this picture.

    It isn't a matter of high arched neck and vertical head carriage, Virginia. The high neck carriage and vertical head are the result of the horse learning to weight its back end and carry itself in a balanced matter. Dressage literally means training, so any horse with upper level dressage training will carry itself with an arched neck. They are lifting their backs sitting down on their hocks which allows them to lift their front end off the ground. Remember 60% of the horse's weight is normally carried on the forehand.
  • VA_in_CAVA_in_CA Member
    edited October 2014
    Okay. You all are talking about things I know nothing about, so I'll just fold up my tent and go home. :-)
  • If you want to watch a beautiful dressage test look up Blue Hors Matinee, musical freestyle. If I can I will post the link but she was spectacular in that test. Totilas tends to have a little too much action in front without the true balance from behind (competition dressage). Matinee is more classical, really look at her elasticity behind. Sadly, she fractured her knee and had to be put down while waiting to be bred.
  • KMMKMM Member
    That mare was fabulous. Too bad she got hurt and was euthanized. Her utube went viral a few years ago.
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