Most likely sire for Z 2017



  • KMMKMM Member
    Might still be something there?
  • Well, tried Tapit, maybe another line...
    Not sure I'd throw Tapit out with the bathwater quite yet. The general consensus among the railbirds is under another trainer Ziconic would have started at 2.

    Whether John is being extremely conservative or Ziconic has run afoul of racing luck and was not physically healthy enough to run, the sense is he could have run at 2.
  • mc3mc3 Member
    she will give birth in two months
  • KMMKMM Member
    War Front might be worth another visit in a few years, depending on how this foal does.
  • Zenyen, I absolutely loved the breeding to Tapit but...definitely I'm not giving up on Zi but.....
  • I suspect that if Z16 looks as good as Z Princess did, they'll go back to War Front for 2017. That was the plan back in 2014 before they decided to give her a year off.

    If not War Front and not Tapit and they want precocious speed, Uncle Mo might be on the short list.

    While MdO is obviously a favorite I don't know that he'd bring the necessary speed to Zenyatta. MdO can throw stayers as well as front runners, a lot depends on what style of runner he's bred too. Zenyatta + MdO could produce a stayer and Dottie said they wanted obvious speed.
  • I love the thought of Uncle Mo -- a really nice sire line for Zenyatta, as well.
  • I always get confused in these threads. what the heck is anyone looking for. If you what to get Zens bottom you got to get over. Look to the front. Find a way to improve the front. She gives you heart...she gives you the back end of any race... figure out the start. give her turn of foot, fast twitch... be beastly. Bite people...savage...destroy...
    What about elusive quality...
    Now I tell a secret...Hennessy....storm cat...
    Find a Storm Cat
  • Back to the Three-Quarters horses.
  • KMMKMM Member
    I love Elusive Quality for her. Don't know enough about storm cat sons.
  • KMMKMM Member
    Quality Road, his son, is even more successful at track and a speedster. What about him?
  • KMMKMM Member
    I think you, tincup, are thinking about a short coupled horse, coming out of the gate, fast. What do we have?
  • I leave that to you...the experts. I`m just a fellow traveler, adding what amounts to nothing.
  • Smarty Jones.
  • lol..
  • Check out the article I posted on p. 23 of the GENETICS IN BREEDING AND PEDIGREE thread. According to it, new research shows that almost all TBs descend from one stallion in Great Britain -- Eclipse. So there really isn't much variation. What there is, is found more in the female lines.
  • And females are all sired by the same guys!
  • KMMKMM Member
    There were at least three foundation sires: the Byerly Turk, the Farley Arabian, and I forget the third. There were mixed breed foundation mares.
  • KMMKMM Member
    Maybe the Godolphin Arabian?
  • Yeah, it's the Byerley Turk, the Darley Arabian, and the Godolphin Arabian. It is still true though that most thoroughbreds are also descendants of Eclipse.
  • Folks, read the article. It's not just TBs. It's just about EVERYBODY. Just three exceptions.... none of which account for TB female lines.
  • Are you talking about Quarter Horses and warmbloods, whoodler?

    I mean QHs are essentially beefed up TBs, with their foundation horses all (?) being TBs. And warmbloods were developed with TBs, to this day.
  • Look at the chart with the article.
  • The article says a large number of sport horses descend from Eclipse, but Morgans are not listed. Same idea though, they all descend from Justin Morgan's stallion Figure, who was actually born in the US at about the same time as Eclipse was extant in GB. Eclipse traced his line back to the Darley Arabian. Figure's tail male line traces back to the Byerley Turk and his sire's damsire is a son of the Godolphin Arabian. Eclipse, on the other hand, has mostly Darley Arabian but shares an ancestor with Figure who descended from the Byerley Turk. Figure has all 3 TB Foundation studs in his pedigree in the 4th through 6th generations back His sire was a TB and his dam was a TB-Arabian He fascinates me because for 250 years or so all of his off-spring resemble him A lot of his older ancestors were foundation Arabians and Turks who were not the famous 3. But the offspring are all listed as TBs. Eclipse has some non-big 3 ancestors, too.
  • KMMKMM Member
    I posted this comment in wrong thread, but the research shows that foundation mares came from English bloodstock, obviously not thoroughbreds. Seller Francis, all warmblood showing breeds, have thoroughbreds used often over time to improve the breeds. Also, recall, humans are all related at some point by the African"eve" . we do have some Neanderthal. Also, genetics over time changes things and mixes it up. I would not be worried about inbreeding in the thoroughbred population as a whole. IMO.
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