Most likely sire for Z 2017



  • KMMKMM Member
    Oh, we make value judgements about these stallions individually; at least I do.
  • KMMKMM Member
    A Bernie and Z filly might be a different kettle of fish ( haha, horse of a different color)? :)
  • I wasn't overwhelmed with the choice of Bernie to begin with - can't imagine going back to him.
  • Thank goodness we can be arm chair breeders, it's the only opportunity I have, lol. I was never big on Bernie either, and truthfully I think the majority of us armchair breeder dismissed him as a future stallion candidate way before Coz even went to Mayberry.
  • KMMKMM Member
    There must have some positive signs there to initially breed vertingineux and Z to Bernie or a deal?
  • Well at the time Vertingineux went to him, AP Indy was still very much in fashion, kinda like Storm Cat or Seattle Slew back in the day, but his fertility was declining. Bernardini looked to be his best heir at stud and conformation wise he fit the profile, he had a good resume on the track and at that time he had a couple break outs from his first crop.

    So that's probably why Vertingineux went to him. Then Ebby was a very good looking specimen and she did very nicely on the track, UNTIL that gate incident got in her head. But at the time Zenyatta was ready for her first "date" they only had Ebby's physical looks to go on and they were good.

    At the time of Zenyatta's breeding, Mr. Besilu wasn't a bust yet, Ebby looked really good and AP Indy was no longer a viable option so Bernardini ticked the boxes.

    But in the past four years, Mr. Besilu went no where, Ebby had her gate incident and mentally shut down, CoZ's conformation was not ideal and Bernardini has come to be known as a hit and miss producer. You can get good Bernardini's but it seems that his mares improve him, rather than the other way around.

  • KMMKMM Member
    Why not these mares
  • KMMKMM Member
    So we don't like Seattle slew sires forher dam line.
  • I don't think Slew is the issue, he's too far back.
  • KMMKMM Member
    Isn't he the sire of AP. Then what is the issue?
  • So Z didn't do anything for Bernardin's record.
  • ZenyenZenyen Member
    edited January 2016
    Maybe the issue is Weekend Surprise? Who knows. There would be a hell of a lot of money to be made in coming up with answers like those.

    But it doesn't take a PhD to look at 3 specimens that did not work out and go, "okay, let's not do that again."

    Now it's by no means an exhaustive source but on a quick glance I don't see any instances where AP Indy was bred to a Kris S mare. I saw one instance of a breeding to a Roberto daughter, which produced nicely, but the dam lines were very different from V's dam line.
  • Truenicks: Zenyatta/Uncle Mo A+... ????
  • It'll be interesting to see how Nyquist continues in his 3 year old year. So far the Uncle Mo's are nice!
  • Totally agree, going back to Bernardini would not be the best choice for Z.

    But, generally speaking, Bernardini is a year younger than War Front and has 1 more millionaire offspring than he does....

    It's all a crapshoot anyway.
  • I think there was concerns with Uncle Mo (as much as I love him too) because of his size. Paniolo Gal said he was probably 17 hh when she saw him on her tour.
  • So how big are his kids? Just because he's on the large size, it doesn't mean he'll throw big.
  • The Uncle Mos seem wonderful, but I seem to recall that he is a huge horse.

    I'm really interested in Liam's Map, myself, although he might also be too big. Really interesting pedigree on the bottom. Two lines to Ta Wee, half to Dr. Fager and an excellent producer.
  • whoodlerwhoodler Member
    edited January 2016
    SO Uncle Mo is huge at 17 hands. What does that make Zenyatta, a girl, at 17.2?
  • A monster ;)

    17 hands is absolutely huge.
  • @EliRose -- I like Liam's Map too! :)
  • I am and always have been a Mo fan but if the moss's are in the hunt for classic race (1+ mile) horses, then I don't think Mo would be on their list for Zenny. He was a brilliant miler; pretty much a bust after that.
  • Coolmore Australia lists Uncle Mo at 16.2
  • That's a horse who I WISH stuck around. His Dirt Mile is one for the ages.

    I hadn't really looked at his pedigree before, either, mostly because I'm not a huge Unbridled's Song fan. Wow, I love it! He's about as "Nerud-bred" as a horse can get.
  • I am and always have been a Mo fan but if the moss's are in the hunt for classic race (1+ mile) horses, then I don't think Mo would be on their list for Zenny. He was a brilliant miler; pretty much a bust after that.
    That's kinda what they're looking for, though. Zenyatta has plenty of stamina, she needs more gas.
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