Faversham (Lucky Pulpit x Love the Chase) Full Brother to California Chrome

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  • SarahSarah MaineMember

    Just speaking for myself, I do not harbor a dislike for either the Coburn’s or the Martin’s and have had positive thoughts/reactions to many things concerning both. But, let’s face it, there have been plenty of things to raise eyebrows about too.

    IMO the Coburn’s did a nice thing when they offered a small ownership percentage in RSS to certain friends/family. Carolyn stated they wanted to give others a chance to experience what they had experienced. I hope RSS comes through and the entire group can experience the winners circle. I think it’s cool that they have invested in another mare they hope to bred and have shared that information with the public. They didn’t have to share anything about Twisted Ginger. I think they do a better job at naming their horses. LOL. However, IMO, for Carolyn to state she wished Martin had done the right thing and retired CC last year was bizarre. CC’s five wins this season proves her wrong. They may have jumped shipped with CC a bit too soon, and now regret doing so. That’s a total guess.

    I think it’s ironic how Martin the “silent” one during the Triple Crown days has found his voice. Unfortunately a lot of what he is saying sounds uncouth. On the other hand, I admire his business chops, and I think partnering with Taylor Made and deciding to sell LTC in foal to Tapit are brilliant moves. How he was able to maneuver the dissolving of the DAP partnership and end up with all the horses except RSS is quite amazing IMO; even with the 70/30 split, you’d think the Coburn’s might have walked away with Faversham too. I am not a fan of how he names his horses and while grateful he shares information on his Facebook, at times I find myself going cross-eyed because he (or someone posting for him) has a tendency to post statements and photos with no context. For example, a Chrome update was posted yesterday with a photo of Not a Kitten. Not two separate posts, but one post. Of course people got confused and started commenting “that’s not Chrome, is that Chrome, who is that”.

    They certainly are characters and have added sugar and spice to a lot of conversations. I wish both the best and will certainly comment again on anything either camp does that I think is interestingly funny, charming, stupid, dumb or otherwise. LOL

    I was so happy when Taylor Made was finally given the opportunity to work with Martin. It was the best thing that every happened to Chrome and Taylor Made. So agree with you.
  • Sarah said:

    You know you dislike Martin. So what's the point. Rather silly to try to cover up. Rather obvious. Coming from a total stranger? So silly.

    Sarah said:

    Don't get why anyone should blindly fork over every dime they work so hard to earn. How often do you do this?

    Huh? I assume comments are directed at my post ---like, dislike Perry Martin? Total stranger, well, yes, because I don't know him personally. I going to guess you do. I have an opinion based on his public persona --- as I perceive it. Everyone forms opinions based on what information is available to them thru all forms of media, including blogs and forums such as this one. I don't personally know Ann and Jerry Moss, Barbara Banke, Mandy Pope, the Taylor brothers or the wonderful Lane's End family who care so lovingly for Zenyatta. I have great admiration for these people --- that admiration and respect is based on their "public persona". Opinions are always subject to change --- I might think Perry Martin is the greatest thing since sliced bread a year from now --- based on his public persona.
  • EliRoseEliRose Member
    edited October 2016
    Sarah said:

    Don't get why anyone should blindly fork over every dime they work so hard to earn. How often do you do this?

    What planet are you coming from and how can we get there?
    bleubetty said:

    Sarah said:

    You know you dislike Martin. So what's the point. Rather silly to try to cover up. Rather obvious. Coming from a total stranger? So silly.

    Sarah said:

    Don't get why anyone should blindly fork over every dime they work so hard to earn. How often do you do this?

    Huh? I assume comments are directed at my post ---like, dislike Perry Martin? Total stranger, well, yes, because I don't know him personally. I going to guess you do. I have an opinion based on his public persona --- as I perceive it. Everyone forms opinions based on what information is available to them thru all forms of media, including blogs and forums such as this one. I don't personally know Ann and Jerry Moss, Barbara Banke, Mandy Pope, the Taylor brothers or the wonderful Lane's End family who care so lovingly for Zenyatta. I have great admiration for these people --- that admiration and respect is based on their "public persona". Opinions are always subject to change --- I might think Perry Martin is the greatest thing since sliced bread a year from now --- based on his public persona.
    Right on @bleubetty!
  • EliRose said:

    Sarah said:

    Don't get why anyone should blindly fork over every dime they work so hard to earn. How often do you do this?

    What planet are you coming from and how can we get there?
    Not sure I'd take that ride --- might get "Lost in Space"!
  • KMMKMM Member
    These are odd exchanges... ???
  • KMM said:

    These are odd exchanges... ???

    Exactly KMM.
  • So why exchange?
  • KMMKMM Member
    edited October 2016
    Really have no clue. Don't think any consprancies are going on. Just odd, IMO.
  • They do complain a lot.
  • KaseyKasey Member
    edited November 2016
    Just speaking for myself. I prefer no paraphrasing of shared materials. I prefer reading the articles for myself. During the Thoroughbred Charity event both the Martins' explained that reading media materials for one's self directly puts a bit of break to some of the spin..They don't believe in the manipulation of fans. They also stated that they do not read much of what is published since so much of it is either untrue or bent to promote agenda's that have nothing to do with the good of Chrome.

    The DAP partnership was not a partnership in the legal entity sense. Steve Coburn bragged before, during and after the KD that they did business on a handshake. I think that Martin simply let Coburn have what Coburn (and Carolyn) asked for. Simple as that. It kept the lawyers expenses to a minimum. Technically though, in this case each had a sole proprietorship and there is nothing concrete in writing stating otherwise...except Coburn's media statements showing no partnership intent. Legal magic can make somethings appear as a kind of formal intent, however, Mr. Coburn did shop Chrome around behind Mr. Martin's back. This negates any legal maneuvering to show partnership in the short run. However, he might be able to win his argument in the long run but it would wind up costing millions of dollars, take a very long time to settlement and more public nastiness. The only winner would be Coburn's attorney. Much of Steve and Carolyn's radio show commenting and nasty posting on the DAP FB page does put the Coburn's in the hole. So to speak. It all makes the earlier Preakness & Santa Anita Derby rantings a regular course of behavior.

    It is too bad that Steve and Carolyn spent so much of their time complaining about the Martins' rather than working together. I don't understand either why the Coburns' put an end to their ownership of Chrome. Today it is quite obvious that Coburn often times spoke out of turn and without a solid understanding of industry strategy. He should have paid more attention to what his partners were trying to achieve and the veterinarians recommendations. They would have definitely had everything they wanted and more. Sometimes listening to friends and "experts who claim to be friends" and being guided by a media hungry for sellable stories really does not pay.... nor satisfy the heart. None of those people really had a focus for securing Chrome's future. It's all a shame how this worked out considering the Martins' have always said that they really enjoyed the Coburns' company in the beginning.

    So now, let's move forward and not overcomplicate the Faversham discussion. Let's wish him all the best that the racing industry has to offer as we do for so many other thoroughbreds. Cheers!
  • I find it very hard to believe that the ownership of CC was not legally formalized. Where do you get your facts.
  • KaseyKasey Member
    edited November 2016
    From the Martin Family.

    I've done four interviews since Chrome's win at the Santa Anita Derby.
  • That was waaaaay out of left field.
  • What media do you write for? Why now? Just asking. Import of your comments?
  • Did you interview the Coburns to have a balanced media interview? Just the whole commentary seems unbalanced. I have no favorites. Just asking if you are unbiased, Kasey?
  • To be honest, has anyone ever read a fair and balanced interview in terms of Chrome's connections?
  • Can you go ahead and do the background work and write one? It seems that you may have connections and talents...
  • Kasey said:

    To be honest, has anyone ever read a fair and balanced interview in terms of Chrome's connections?

    Yes, I actually have. As well as having heard personal anecdotes from TM staff.

    Unfortunately, your version of "fair and balanced" seems to be the same as Fox News'. If you have had so many interviews (interviews or conversations? There is a difference) please show them. Or better yet, you could PM one of the members your credentials. I have done so in the past. Until then, I will consider you a propaganda machine, which is just too bad.

    Frankly, I find it highly suspect that you came out of the blue to blow smoke up Martin's ass when this thread has been sitting for over a month.
  • I have to agree with Elirose. You have not showed any credentials, media or otherwise, and came out of the blue. Saying things does not make them true or proven. Kind of all of the false media stories coming out during election, although on a minor scale.
  • Personally, I like a kinder take on the whole situation than what the public usually gets. And the way Kasey describes it seems pretty plausible. I still find both parties to be unexceptional in their actions, just normal every day folks struck by lightning. Nobody knows how he/she will act until the unexpected erupts all around them.
  • Kasey is putting her self forth as an interviewer; and that asks for the other side of the story, which does not seem pursued, if the writer goes after the full story. My take. I want my self to hear both sides. To be an objective journalist, and there may be none left, but to publish without the other side commenting at least, seems wholly incomplete. She can, however,be blessed to write opinion pieces, under her byline, but I have not seen such.
  • I've interviewed Taylor Made and they are working very hard to not make waves. As is only natural.
  • What is your byline or media? Any credentials?
  • EliRoseEliRose Member
    edited November 2016
    I invite you to post your interviews, then. Your statements against Coburn (who I have no love for) are awfully damning.


    I still find it completely bizarre that you suddenly started posting on this hibernating thread.
  • My response to Especially horses who is very often fascinated by and discusses the legal technicalities of these good people simply shows that there is more to this story than most people know.
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