Arrogate ( Unbridled's Song - Bubbler, by Distorted Humor)

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Comments

  • edited November 2017
    Takes an exceptional horse to come back to form after winning the Dubai Classic. There is one that comes to mind.
  • ZenyenZenyen Member
    edited November 2017

    Takes an exceptional horse to come back to form after winning the Dubai Classic. There is one that comes to mind.

    I'm not ready to get on board the Chrome train on that philosophy alone.

    Chrome ran in Dubai when he was 4 and he didn't win. He then effectively took a year off which included extended down time on a farm with paddock turnout and the mental relaxation of farm life. This also gave him time to grow and get comfortable with his bigger body.

    Then he went back into racing had one prep and straight to Dubai as a 5 year old. Yes he did come back from Dubai and go on to win 3 races, but towards the end of his campaign he lost a step. I'm not counting the Winter Challenge Stakes because that was a glorified walk over.

    Arrogate has been living track life and running at top form for 19 months without any farm/mental break.

    California Chrome went 15 months on the track then he had a break on the farm, then he came back but not quite to form, still good enough to finish strong and to go to Dubai and bring home 2nd and then the wheels fell off the wagon and he ended up taking a 10 month break, before he came back, older and stronger.

    Chrome ran 2 races going into the Dubai World Cup, off a 10 month lay off and at age 5
    Arrogate ran 7 races going into the Dubai World Cup, off no lay off at age 4

    So I can't say that what Chrome did was that exceptional. He had longer rest periods, and he was older. What you can definitely argue is that Chrome was better managed, at that point in his career. Which, thank you Taylor Made and Art Sherman for that!


  • Different opinions is what makes this game so much fun.

    I firmly believe most horses would not have come back to championship form after the type of campaign Chrome had at 4. His 5 year old campaign was exceptional. Of course that's only one woman's opinion.

    Arrogate, will always have my utmost admiration as one of the most spectacular runners I've ever had the privilege to watch race.
  • Different opinions is what makes this game so much fun.

    I firmly believe most horses would not have come back to championship form after the type of campaign Chrome had at 4. His 5 year old campaign was exceptional. Of course that's only one woman's opinion.

    Arrogate, will always have my utmost admiration as one of the most spectacular runners I've ever had the privilege to watch race.

    Very true and I will be the first to admit that I am biased because I have never liked California Chrome.
  • LionessLioness Member
    edited November 2017
    I am again voicing my opinion in agreement that Arrogate was mismanaged after Dubai. I have been saying it since the San Diego comeback. Baffert finally admitted that it wasn't all the track and he has regressed. I am not the biggest fan of Chrome either but I can respect what he accomplished last year with a proper turn out.
  • edited November 2017
    I freely admit I'm biased favorably towards Chrome :)

    If ever a horse was mismanaged, it was Chrome at four, yet somehow he over came it and came back stronger than ever.

    P.S.
    Wish I had a mare to send to Arrogate. Can't wait to see those babies.
  • KMMKMM Member
    edited November 2017
    I don't know about mismanaged. Arrogate had his run and peaked. Gun Runner has been amazingly consistent. He won on the front end in the BC. Arrogate had plenty of time off between races this year. All horses are individuals.

    Beholder was an amazingly consistent mare too.
    Arrogate was amazing in his bout. CC did not beat him then.
  • LionessLioness Member
    edited November 2017
    I'm just suggesting that keeping a growing thoroughbred (yes, he's was massive before Dubai and continued to grow in height) in a stall on the backside after four amazing performances when the connections knew he would be given months off was not the best course of action. Athletes peak and regress normally but given time off can recharge and start a new cycle. I do not think Arrogate was of an age were he simply could not perform anymore and was past his prime. But we might diverge there.

    Gun Runner is extremely consistent and should be getting possibly the most praise out of anyone. He would have won in Dubai if he hadn't run into Arrogate in freak mode. Then won four Grade 1's in a row with shorter break than the other two after Dubai.
  • Lioness said:

    I'm just suggesting that keeping a growing thoroughbred (yes, he's was massive before Dubai and continued to grow in height) in a stall on the backside after four amazing performances when the connections knew he would be given months off was not the best course of action. Athletes peak and regress normally but given time off can recharge and start a new cycle. I do not think Arrogate was of an age were he simply could not perform anymore and was past his prime. But we might diverge there.

    Gun Runner is extremely consistent and should be getting possibly the most praise out of anyone. He would have won in Dubai if he hadn't run into Arrogate in freak mode. Then won four Grade 1's in a row with shorter break than the other two after Dubai.

    I'm no expert by any means, but your reasoning is solid, Lioness.
  • I'm on board with Gun Runner deserving more praise.
  • sarinnesarinne Member
    edited November 2017

    I'm on board with Gun Runner deserving more praise.

    Absolutely! It seems a shame that, at this point, he wont be mentioned in the same breath as Arrogate in terms of history, even though he's defeated Arrogate decisively now. I understand Arrogate ran some dominant races, but I hate to think that Arrogate will get the "oh, he just never recovered from the trip to Dubai and he hated Del Mar" pass.
  • KetaKeta Member
    edited November 2017
    Just my opinion
    When I saw the Mo Spirit race, I said to myself: He just did an Arrogate.
    Then I watched Arrogate.
    The questions kept popping up:
    Why hadn't Baffert run them in prep races?
    What was the impact of not having Jimmy Barnes on staff? He is recovering from injury.
    Who was handing Arrogate in the paddock?
    I did not like the lack of attention and the way the chain was being used.
    Why weren't Arrogate, Bella, Mo Spirit wearing special shoes?
    One of the Euros was wearing cleats to get better traction in the deep track.
    FYI-one the handicappers has a great analysis of the effects of the tides on Del Mar.
    Has Bob Baffert forgotten he is a conditioner not just a trainer?
    Steve Haskin summed up this Breeders' Cup in his tweet
    Steve Haskin‏ @SteveHaskin tweet Sat. Nov. 4 2017
    I have never seen so many big favorites run so poorly over a racetrack they apparently couldnt handle. Weird BC all around.

    Keta
    Correction
    Thanks sarianne. I got carried away. Unique Bella is not in Baffert barn.
  • sarinnesarinne Member
    edited November 2017
    Well to be fair, @Keta, Baffert is not Unique Bella's trainer.

    It was a "weird" Breeders' Cup -- but that's what I like about moving it around and not always having it at the same track! It makes it more of a level playing field, so to speak, more fair. If the horse is great, and is being managed well, s/he should be able to win at any track.
  • I kept trying to make a post yesterday but my mobile was acting up.

    But I noted that the big name horses who conditioned at Santa Anita, did not show up at Del Mar. I don't handicap or bet because I'm lousy at it, but after the first couple of instances with that IF I had been a handicapper I would have gone through and thrown out any horse who had trained strictly at Santa Anita and then did a short ship to Del Mar.

    The Euro who wore special shoes, that was unique to him and had nothing to do with the track. The announcers explained that he launches so powerfully from the starting gate that the dirt breaks out from under his feet. So in order to keep him from falling on his face, they put the toe grabs and cleats on him. It was like giving a human running the "blocks" to launch off, as opposed to running off flat footed.
  • Zenyen
    I did hear the explanation of why he was wearing cleats to improve his start.
    Here was a trainer thinking outside the box and trying to give his horse
    every possible advantage to win.
    Since track surface has been an Arrogate problem, different shoes might
    have been an answer.
    BC is over so everything I say is Monday morning quarterbacking.
    As the old saying goes: Disappointment is expectations not met.
    Yep, I am disappointed.
    Keta
  • Arrogate was definitely not the same like last year before the Classic. He went to his number 1 paddock position right away and was basically in his or just out of his paddock while the other horses were making their rounds. They were working on his bite they were sponging him down and all he did was making little circles in front of his paddock. I was close to him and felt really sad watching.
    But I am thankful that his connections let him run as a 4 year old because otherwise we Would not have seen
    his spectacular win in Dubai! Horse of a life time
  • Mike Smith Interview - Post Race - It's the track!

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