Unique Bella (Tapit-Unrivaled Belle)

1131416181921

Comments

  • Oh @Zenyen, I'm sorry you misunderstood -- I didn't assume you disliked her at all! :) I asked if you did or didn't. I appreciate your post, but please understand I was not being critical of you (or anyone!), only asking. I realize my post was loaded with typos, and for that I'm sorry. I'm simply asking anyone who'd like to answer, how they feel about Bella (or any other horse with threads, but Bella seems to be a popular subject). Many have piped up that they are fans........just looking for constructive discussion that I don't get from reading articles on other sites, like you say, usually just trash talk. Thank you for adding your opinions and I'm sorry if I sounded rude or judgmental. Always looking to learn. :)
  • Ah gotcha.

    Okay, then hopefully what I wrote helped!

    Really the only horse talked about on this forum who I do not believe is worth the hype is California Chrome. Which I have mentioned in the past.
  • You did -- it was well written and I understood what you were saying. I appreciate your time!

    I'd love it it we could discuss horses in depth like this rather than just be tweets and such (which I like too, for info, don't get me wrong). I just am always open to learning about specific horses and reading analysis. Believe me, I've spent way too long on Bloodhorse and Paulick........enjoying, but not getting what I need to grow as a fan.
  • KetaKeta Member
    edited April 2018
    Unique Bella was carrying 123 lbs
    Rest of field 115
  • And where does TRAINING fit into this? She... or any horse... might not LIKE to slow down... but with enough reinforcement should be able to learn to do so when TOLD. Instead of going out on the track and just galloping around without company or with someone the horse is supposed to catch and get ahead of, why not practice HAVING to stay behind once in a while? No horse is going to forget it wants to be in front.
  • You're talking about hyper horses and short training schedules prior to serious race training. I wish they would spend less time trying to get 2yos to the races and actually teach them or wait until their minds mature more and THEN teach them to a) rate and actually respond to bits and rider's position to have push-button responses (although this is more natural to some horses than others and some just won't be as finely tuned) and b) GET THEM OVER THEIR FEAR OF STARTING GATES and TEACH THEM TO LOAD, NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TAKES! Seriously. This is a big problem, with horses needing various techniques to forcefully (usually, anyway) shove them into a tiny stall. Horses, with gentle repetition, will get over this. People just don't give the horses enough time to relax and learn that gates are fine and not a big deal.

    If I had a horse that was bad about loading and needed blind folds or pushing, or being riderless to load, or even simply an open gate (which is NOT routine, so therefore an inconvenience to the gate staff), I would spend several days just slowly warming the horse up to going through the stall, then loading, then standing and relaxing.

    And then also work on response to riders, both position and bit. A jockey and exercise rider both change position enough that the horse can feel it in the mouth and on its back and sides. And although the reins do need to be somewhat taut just so the jockey doesn't have to move hands a lot (like in dressage), they don't need to be pulling on the mouth. A rider does not need to be pulling hard to keep a horse from taking off. But the horses are taught to pull and push. Not have soft mouths and noses, hence those bits with the metal ring inside the mouth, and the nose chain on halters.
  • zfanzfan CaliforniaMember
    sarinne said:

    You did -- it was well written and I understood what you were saying. I appreciate your time!

    I'd love it it we could discuss horses in depth like this rather than just be tweets and such (which I like too, for info, don't get me wrong). I just am always open to learning about specific horses and reading analysis. Believe me, I've spent way too long on Bloodhorse and Paulick........enjoying, but not getting what I need to grow as a fan.

    Thank you sarinne and Zenyen on this subject. I have always appreciated the wisdom and experience displayed through posts on these forums. I love reading and learning the whats, whens, wheres, whos, whys and hows without being treated like the rank amateur that I am. I really appreciate it a lot.
  • You're talking about hyper horses and short training schedules prior to serious race training. I wish they would spend less time trying to get 2yos to the races and actually teach them or wait until their minds mature more and THEN teach them to a) rate and actually respond to bits and rider's position to have push-button responses (although this is more natural to some horses than others and some just won't be as finely tuned) and b) GET THEM OVER THEIR FEAR OF STARTING GATES and TEACH THEM TO LOAD, NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TAKES! Seriously. This is a big problem, with horses needing various techniques to forcefully (usually, anyway) shove them into a tiny stall. Horses, with gentle repetition, will get over this. People just don't give the horses enough time to relax and learn that gates are fine and not a big deal.

    If I had a horse that was bad about loading and needed blind folds or pushing, or being riderless to load, or even simply an open gate (which is NOT routine, so therefore an inconvenience to the gate staff), I would spend several days just slowly warming the horse up to going through the stall, then loading, then standing and relaxing.

    And then also work on response to riders, both position and bit. A jockey and exercise rider both change position enough that the horse can feel it in the mouth and on its back and sides. And although the reins do need to be somewhat taut just so the jockey doesn't have to move hands a lot (like in dressage), they don't need to be pulling on the mouth. A rider does not need to be pulling hard to keep a horse from taking off. But the horses are taught to pull and push. Not have soft mouths and noses, hence those bits with the metal ring inside the mouth, and the nose chain on halters.


    Exactly.
  • You are welcome @zfan ! I'm in the same boat I think wanting to learn without being patronized and judged. We are all on various levels of learning throughout our lives, it's a shame when people get closed-minded.

    Thank you to @mrsrebaker and @whoodler for chiming in too. I have read a lot of people ascribe to that same school of thought. Its something for me to think about :)

    @Keta, I always love the tweets for photo and info. I know it's just Bella's markings in that finish line shot about, but she looks every bit as mad as hell as Zenyen says she is. lol Unbridled Mo is like "damn straight I just won this race, Ricardo!" haha
  • KetaKeta Member
    sarinne
    So glad that you saw everything that I saw in that photo.
    Thought it was such a great shot.
    Keta
  • KMMKMM Member
    Pulling on racehorses can be an indication to go, and faster...
  • That's where a little training will help.
  • @QueenZFan22 thank you for posting these of Bella -- can't wait to hear where she is headed next :)
  • Zenyen said:

    Ah gotcha.

    Okay, then hopefully what I wrote helped!

    Really the only horse talked about on this forum who I do not believe is worth the hype is California Chrome. Which I have mentioned in the past.

    I'm a Bella fan and thought she did very well after her fall in the gate. I think she'll get better with time and training and learn to relax and put her competitiveness to good use in the stretch.

    Your post was wonderfully informative, Zenyen. Please direct me to your past post about California Chrome- I'm a fan and curious why you think he's not worth the hype. Not to start an argument, I'm not a Chromie sort, just curious what your thoughts are. You seem to be very knowledgeable and I'm always game to learn.


  • KMMKMM Member
    Doesn't have the bloodlines. He is a one-off. IMO, but said it before.
  • moonrise said:

    Zenyen said:

    Ah gotcha.

    Okay, then hopefully what I wrote helped!

    Really the only horse talked about on this forum who I do not believe is worth the hype is California Chrome. Which I have mentioned in the past.

    I'm a Bella fan and thought she did very well after her fall in the gate. I think she'll get better with time and training and learn to relax and put her competitiveness to good use in the stretch.

    Your post was wonderfully informative, Zenyen. Please direct me to your past post about California Chrome- I'm a fan and curious why you think he's not worth the hype. Not to start an argument, I'm not a Chromie sort, just curious what your thoughts are. You seem to be very knowledgeable and I'm always game to learn.


    @moonrise I actually can't recall which thread I was discussing it in, but it really boils down to a personal preference.

    California Chrome is a very physically talented horse. He is put together beautifully and his mechanics for running bore that out in how well he did in his career.

    If you go back over his races, California Chrome never won a race where another horse looked him in the eye in the stretch. If he could get away on the lead, or out ahead of the field in the stretch, then he tended to cruise home but any time a horse came up on him and looked him in the eye in the stretch, Chrome folded. He never fought back.

    This is why I say it's my personal preference. I want a horse with heart and guts, like Shared Belief or Rachel Alexandra or American Pharoah. Give me Rags to Riches vs Curlin down the straight at Belmont. Chrome, when a horse got past him in the stretch, he threw in the towel; he had to have his race in order to win and Art and Victor were very good at giving him that.

    But to me, that does not suggest a horse who is going to be particularly successful in the shed.
  • moonrisemoonrise Member
    edited April 2018
    Zenyen said:

    moonrise said:

    Zenyen said:

    Ah gotcha.

    Okay, then hopefully what I wrote helped!

    Really the only horse talked about on this forum who I do not believe is worth the hype is California Chrome. Which I have mentioned in the past.

    I'm a Bella fan and thought she did very well after her fall in the gate. I think she'll get better with time and training and learn to relax and put her competitiveness to good use in the stretch.

    Your post was wonderfully informative, Zenyen. Please direct me to your past post about California Chrome- I'm a fan and curious why you think he's not worth the hype. Not to start an argument, I'm not a Chromie sort, just curious what your thoughts are. You seem to be very knowledgeable and I'm always game to learn.


    @moonrise I actually can't recall which thread I was discussing it in, but it really boils down to a personal preference.

    California Chrome is a very physically talented horse. He is put together beautifully and his mechanics for running bore that out in how well he did in his career.

    If you go back over his races, California Chrome never won a race where another horse looked him in the eye in the stretch. If he could get away on the lead, or out ahead of the field in the stretch, then he tended to cruise home but any time a horse came up on him and looked him in the eye in the stretch, Chrome folded. He never fought back.

    This is why I say it's my personal preference. I want a horse with heart and guts, like Shared Belief or Rachel Alexandra or American Pharoah. Give me Rags to Riches vs Curlin down the straight at Belmont. Chrome, when a horse got past him in the stretch, he threw in the towel; he had to have his race in order to win and Art and Victor were very good at giving him that.

    But to me, that does not suggest a horse who is going to be particularly successful in the shed.
    I don't disagree with your opinion. So you don't think a dam with some vim and vigor and a bit of sass might not contribute something from her genes that will make for a bigger fighter? I am always fascinated by breeding knowledge. I know very little except what I pick up by osmosis. I'd be interested to hear what you think about what foals get from sires vs. dams.

    Edited to add!
    Thank you! For the discussion!

  • ZenyenZenyen Member
    edited April 2018
    moonrise said:

    Zenyen said:

    moonrise said:

    Zenyen said:

    Ah gotcha.

    Okay, then hopefully what I wrote helped!

    Really the only horse talked about on this forum who I do not believe is worth the hype is California Chrome. Which I have mentioned in the past.

    I'm a Bella fan and thought she did very well after her fall in the gate. I think she'll get better with time and training and learn to relax and put her competitiveness to good use in the stretch.

    Your post was wonderfully informative, Zenyen. Please direct me to your past post about California Chrome- I'm a fan and curious why you think he's not worth the hype. Not to start an argument, I'm not a Chromie sort, just curious what your thoughts are. You seem to be very knowledgeable and I'm always game to learn.


    @moonrise I actually can't recall which thread I was discussing it in, but it really boils down to a personal preference.

    California Chrome is a very physically talented horse. He is put together beautifully and his mechanics for running bore that out in how well he did in his career.

    If you go back over his races, California Chrome never won a race where another horse looked him in the eye in the stretch. If he could get away on the lead, or out ahead of the field in the stretch, then he tended to cruise home but any time a horse came up on him and looked him in the eye in the stretch, Chrome folded. He never fought back.

    This is why I say it's my personal preference. I want a horse with heart and guts, like Shared Belief or Rachel Alexandra or American Pharoah. Give me Rags to Riches vs Curlin down the straight at Belmont. Chrome, when a horse got past him in the stretch, he threw in the towel; he had to have his race in order to win and Art and Victor were very good at giving him that.

    But to me, that does not suggest a horse who is going to be particularly successful in the shed.
    I don't disagree with your opinion. So you don't think a dam with some vim and vigor and a bit of sass might not contribute something from her genes that will make for a bigger fighter? I am always fascinated by breeding knowledge. I know very little except what I pick up by osmosis. I'd be interested to hear what you think about what foals get from sires vs. dams.

    Edited to add!
    Thank you! For the discussion!

    Oh I definitely think the distaff line (dam line) could bring in that drive, and after all the foal does learn to run and be a horse from the mare so definitely don't discount that influence!

    But that would be a case of the mare improving the stallion and most stallions in that situation do not thrive in the breeding world. There is simply too much competition for top mares/producers. Now if California Chrome can bring something to help improve his mares, that would make it another story entirely. So we'll have to wait a few years and see.

    But this is UB's thread so, I will hush up now. If you'd like to talk further, please don't hesitate to send me a PM!!
  • Zenyen said:

    moonrise said:

    Zenyen said:

    moonrise said:

    Zenyen said:

    Ah gotcha.

    Okay, then hopefully what I wrote helped!

    Really the only horse talked about on this forum who I do not believe is worth the hype is California Chrome. Which I have mentioned in the past.

    I'm a Bella fan and thought she did very well after her fall in the gate. I think she'll get better with time and training and learn to relax and put her competitiveness to good use in the stretch.

    Your post was wonderfully informative, Zenyen. Please direct me to your past post about California Chrome- I'm a fan and curious why you think he's not worth the hype. Not to start an argument, I'm not a Chromie sort, just curious what your thoughts are. You seem to be very knowledgeable and I'm always game to learn.


    @moonrise I actually can't recall which thread I was discussing it in, but it really boils down to a personal preference.

    California Chrome is a very physically talented horse. He is put together beautifully and his mechanics for running bore that out in how well he did in his career.

    If you go back over his races, California Chrome never won a race where another horse looked him in the eye in the stretch. If he could get away on the lead, or out ahead of the field in the stretch, then he tended to cruise home but any time a horse came up on him and looked him in the eye in the stretch, Chrome folded. He never fought back.

    This is why I say it's my personal preference. I want a horse with heart and guts, like Shared Belief or Rachel Alexandra or American Pharoah. Give me Rags to Riches vs Curlin down the straight at Belmont. Chrome, when a horse got past him in the stretch, he threw in the towel; he had to have his race in order to win and Art and Victor were very good at giving him that.

    But to me, that does not suggest a horse who is going to be particularly successful in the shed.
    I don't disagree with your opinion. So you don't think a dam with some vim and vigor and a bit of sass might not contribute something from her genes that will make for a bigger fighter? I am always fascinated by breeding knowledge. I know very little except what I pick up by osmosis. I'd be interested to hear what you think about what foals get from sires vs. dams.

    Edited to add!
    Thank you! For the discussion!

    Oh I definitely think the distaff line (dam line) could bring in that drive, and after all the foal does learn to run and be a horse from the mare so definitely don't discount that influence!

    But that would be a case of the mare improving the stallion and most stallions in that situation do not thrive in the breeding world. There is simply too much competition for top mares/producers. Now if California Chrome can bring something to help improve his mares, that would make it another story entirely. So we'll have to wait a few years and see.

    But this is UB's thread so, I will hush up now. If you'd like to talk further, please don't hesitate to send me a PM!!
    Absolutely. Thank you.
    Back to UB. Thank you everyone for indulging me a wayward departure.



Sign In or Register to comment.