St Patrick's Day - Full Brother to American Pharoah

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  • edited June 2017
    Hence "Not the same thing exactly". ;) But yes, that explains the stubbornness for not going back to the well, despite logic (at least logical to me).

    EliRose said:

    Not the same thing exactly, but it got me to thinking, is there anyone who doesn't wish Vertigineux had gone back to back with Street Cry in 2009 and 2010 in hopes of getting a full sister to Zenyatta? I would have added 2008 to those back to back visits, but having a soft spot for Ebby it's too hard to wish her "out of existence", and in 2005 and 2006 the incentive wasn’t there because Zenyatta’s full talent was unknown. Vertigineux visited Street Cry only one more time after Zenyatta and ended up with a colt who appears to be just so-so on the track and I'm not sure if I'd bother with him as a stud. As everyone is aware of, this is a female family and I’m sure the owners would have preferred a 2013 filly. Then of course V dies and Street Cry dies. You snooze you lose.

    IIRC, there was a dispute between the mare owner and the stallion owner.
  • ZenyenZenyen Member

    Hence "Not the same thing exactly". ;) But yes, that explains the stubbornness for not going back to the well, despite logic (at least logical to me).



    EliRose said:

    Not the same thing exactly, but it got me to thinking, is there anyone who doesn't wish Vertigineux had gone back to back with Street Cry in 2009 and 2010 in hopes of getting a full sister to Zenyatta? I would have added 2008 to those back to back visits, but having a soft spot for Ebby it's too hard to wish her "out of existence", and in 2005 and 2006 the incentive wasn’t there because Zenyatta’s full talent was unknown. Vertigineux visited Street Cry only one more time after Zenyatta and ended up with a colt who appears to be just so-so on the track and I'm not sure if I'd bother with him as a stud. As everyone is aware of, this is a female family and I’m sure the owners would have preferred a 2013 filly. Then of course V dies and Street Cry dies. You snooze you lose.

    IIRC, there was a dispute between the mare owner and the stallion owner.
    To be fair I don't think any of your really big time, long term (as in generations upon generations) of breeders go back to the well thinking they are going to get the same individual twice.

    Most understand that the exceptional specimens are the rare combination of genetic expression and getting that again is like hitting the lottery twice.

    People usually will go back to the well, so to speak, looking to get more family with which to hopefully produce a champion a couple generations down. Now of course it often helps in the auction ring when you can say "full X to champion So and So" but they didn't send V back to Street Cry expecting another Zenyatta.

    What they wanted was another filly from that cross, from that strong female line, to add to their breeding program. Probably with an eye towards putting her to Frankel or Gallileo with hopes of getting the grass equivalent of Zenyatta in the next generation. I doubt they have stars in their eyes hope for De Coranado to be a stellar stallion prospect.
  • EliRoseEliRose Member
    edited June 2017
    Zenyen said:

    EliRose said:

    Not the same thing exactly, but it got me to thinking, is there anyone who doesn't wish Vertigineux had gone back to back with Street Cry in 2009 and 2010 in hopes of getting a full sister to Zenyatta? I would have added 2008 to those back to back visits, but having a soft spot for Ebby it's too hard to wish her "out of existence", and in 2005 and 2006 the incentive wasn’t there because Zenyatta’s full talent was unknown. Vertigineux visited Street Cry only one more time after Zenyatta and ended up with a colt who appears to be just so-so on the track and I'm not sure if I'd bother with him as a stud. As everyone is aware of, this is a female family and I’m sure the owners would have preferred a 2013 filly. Then of course V dies and Street Cry dies. You snooze you lose.

    IIRC, there was a dispute between the mare owner and the stallion owner.
    That's like suggesting the Grand Canyon is just a small hole in the ground. ;)
    Haha, I was leaving work and didn't want to muck things up by giving wrong information. I haven't thought about THAT fun situation in quite a few years.
  • edited June 2017
    I was only thinking in terms of breeding and family too and not for the purpose of getting a clone. And agree about De Coranado, I don't see anything there to be enthusiastic about. I bet even before he was born they were hoping for a filly (again not because there was an expectation of Zenyatta 2). For breeding purposes, a full sister going to Galileo would have been a dreamy thought.
    Zenyen said:

    Hence "Not the same thing exactly". ;) But yes, that explains the stubbornness for not going back to the well, despite logic (at least logical to me).

    To be fair I don't think any of your really big time, long term (as in generations upon generations) of breeders go back to the well thinking they are going to get the same individual twice.

    I doubt they have stars in their eyes hope for De Coranado to be a stellar stallion prospect.
  • For his first workout, this is really quick!

    St Patrick's Day (2-Year-Old Colt)

    Date: June 22, 2017
    Track: SANTA ANITA PARK
    Distance: Three Furlongs
    Time: 35:40 Handily
    Track Condition: Fast
    Surface: Dirt
    Rank: 1/9
  • Oh ya, merits a little Irish Step Dancing.

    For his first workout, this is really quick!

    St Patrick's Day (2-Year-Old Colt)

    Date: June 22, 2017
    Track: SANTA ANITA PARK
    Distance: Three Furlongs
    Time: 35:40 Handily
    Track Condition: Fast
    Surface: Dirt
    Rank: 1/9

  • Wow!! He may have some serious talent!
  • For his first workout, this is really quick!

    St Patrick's Day (2-Year-Old Colt)

    Date: June 22, 2017
    Track: SANTA ANITA PARK
    Distance: Three Furlongs
    Time: 35:40 Handily
    Track Condition: Fast
    Surface: Dirt
    Rank: 1/9

    Here is a video of the workout from XBTV!
  • Out of curiosity I went back to see what American Cleopatra got in her first workout with Bob Baffert, and it looks like she was just 1/5th of a second slower. I know Baffert typically works his horses a little quicker than other trainers, so this workout may not necessarily be a sign of big talent. I guess I'm just used to trainers going a little bit easier with a horse's first official workout, so I got excited haha.
  • For his first workout, this is really quick!

    St Patrick's Day (2-Year-Old Colt)

    Date: June 22, 2017
    Track: SANTA ANITA PARK
    Distance: Three Furlongs
    Time: 35:40 Handily
    Track Condition: Fast
    Surface: Dirt
    Rank: 1/9

    Here is a video of the workout from XBTV!
  • For his first workout, this is really quick!

    St Patrick's Day (2-Year-Old Colt)

    Date: June 22, 2017
    Track: SANTA ANITA PARK
    Distance: Three Furlongs
    Time: 35:40 Handily
    Track Condition: Fast
    Surface: Dirt
    Rank: 1/9

    Here is a video of the workout from XBTV!
  • Is it normal to work a two year old this quickly--as in just arrived on the track within the week? Just seems rather fast to me! But I was a long distance collegiate runner and after coming back from a break we always had at least a month of daily running for conditioning before we did any workouts so maybe I'm just thinking in those terms! Haha
  • jaefeatheredjaefeathered Member
    edited June 2017
    Lioness said:

    Is it normal to work a two year old this quickly--as in just arrived on the track within the week? Just seems rather fast to me! But I was a long distance collegiate runner and after coming back from a break we always had at least a month of daily running for conditioning before we did any workouts so maybe I'm just thinking in those terms! Haha

    It looks pretty common for Baffert, and he's one of the best so I'm not one to question his methods. These horses also aren't coming in off of no exercise either. St Patrick's Day has been on another farm somewhere else galloping and working his way up to Santa Anita. I wouldn't worry about it :)
  • EliRoseEliRose Member
    edited June 2017
    That knee action, oh my. Turf sprinter please :P
  • Thanks! @jaefeathered I wasn't sure that that was norm, as I don't usually follow unstarted two year olds (for obvious reasons). I wasn't sure how closely the farm training backs the track arrival, either. Sometimes I just can't let go of my training in the context for some reason. A few days off and you were screwed! Haha

    And yes I agree @EliRose he is definitely a hard hitter!
  • @Lioness - In case you are interested in following a few 2yos prior to their debuts, feel free to follow the Thoroughbred Ownership Experiences thread. @lauraj_cincinnati owns a share in a 2yo colt who hasn't started yet, and @EliRose and I are part of a racing club that has a few unstarted 2yos as well. =)
  • @jaefeathered thanks! I'll have to start following along to see how the pretraining works!
  • EliRoseEliRose Member
    edited June 2017
    I'm also going to be posting updates on some of my yearlings from last year, as they pop up.
    Not the right thread, but here's one of mine that I posted about in September after she was sold for far less ($1500) than I thought she was worth. Considering she's with Peter Miller and running in a SA MSW tomorrow, I think I may have been right. Hard to tell until she runs. @Zenyen may remember her, second dam was Imperial Gesture.
    http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=9926186&registry=T
    http://forums.zenyatta.com/discussion/comment/190790/#Comment_190790

    History Supreme is a magnificent filly as well, definitely one to watch out for:
    http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=9926248&registry=T
  • I don't want to get off topic too much on this thread either, but thanks for sharing. I do like knowing about the babies you've worked with. I'd like to know what you think about the Power Brokers, do you like what you've seen so far? I'll look for your response under the 2017 Two Year Olds thread.
    EliRose said:

    I'm also going to be posting updates on some of my yearlings from last year, as they pop up.
    Not the right thread, but here's one of mine that I posted about in September after she was sold for far less ($1500) than I thought she was worth. Considering she's with Peter Miller and running in a SA MSW tomorrow, I think I may have been right. Hard to tell until she runs. @Zenyen may remember her, second dam was Imperial Gesture.
    http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=9926186&registry=T
    http://forums.zenyatta.com/discussion/comment/190790/#Comment_190790

    History Supreme is a magnificent filly as well, definitely one to watch out for:
    http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=9926248&registry=T

  • KMMKMM Member
    He is looking the part!










  • He said in his posting that he's "not so little" which I was wondering since Cleo turned out more compact.
  • KMMKMM Member
    edited July 2017
    Doesn't look tall at all, but only 2. Looks full bodied. Some time to grow. K
    But legs don't get longer. Maybe 15'2 or 15'3?
  • Based on the nominations for the Del Mar Futurity, St Patrick's Day is owned by Zayat Stables. That's utterly baffling to me, because I really thought that if the Zayats had bought him privately, we would have heard about it all over their social media accounts. i wonder why we haven't heard anything from them!

    http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbHorsemenAreaDownloadAction.cfm?sn=SN-DMR-20170904-544403
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