Should we always breed the best to the best?

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  • I thought about maybe she has proven difficult to get in foal/or stay in foal too.

    "Believed to be pregnant", is standard catalog language for all mares supposedly carrying a foal.

    That's interesting. I would think by December it would be fairly easy to confirm a pregnancy. Are they just hedging in case she slips after the catalog is prepared?
  • jen_bloom said:

    I thought about maybe she has proven difficult to get in foal/or stay in foal too.

    "Believed to be pregnant", is standard catalog language for all mares supposedly carrying a foal.

    That's interesting. I would think by December it would be fairly easy to confirm a pregnancy. Are they just hedging in case she slips after the catalog is prepared?
    It's legalize really.

    If they sell a mare in foal and then for whatever reason that foal is non-viable, there was the opening for the buyer to pursue legal action against the seller and the auction house.

    By saying "Believe to be..." they basically cover their butts if in a few months she slips the foal or delivers a stillborn. They didn't "guarantee" that the mare would have a living foal at the time of sale.
  • I think it is a no guarantee type of statement for legality reasons. Maybe Zenyen can shed more light.
  • Gotcha. So she's "allegedly pregnant." :)
  • jen_bloomjen_bloom Member
    edited December 2017
    If she's sold pregnant and there was a "live foal" or "stands and nurses" clause, would the buyers inherit that guarantee? Or does it depend on the situation?

    Oops--sorry for double-posting!
  • One would think that all of the breeding rights designated in the contract follow with the sale of the mare--attach to the sale of the mare.
  • Ah, Zenyen, was in the process of answering. Thanks.
  • Not sure if this fits this discussion but I found this to be a very interesting read. Broodmares: your buying guide: https://ownerbreeder.co.uk/columns/broodmares-buying-guide/#.WivMVAVY0PU.twitter

    @QueenZFan22 -- thank you for this article! I don't know how I missed it! I would have to agree with completely with it, IME in dogs. I call it "throwing/producing their pedigree". You can always find what you think is the most perfect dog and bitch, in terms of winning and looks, and be pretty disappointed by the result. However, you can make some compromises in terms of conformation/breed type in the individuals, and if they compliment each other strongly, and have the depth of pedigree behind them to support that, you can absolutely end up with an outstanding litter. If you do all your homework. Very interesting to read the TB side of the equation. Perhaps someone should spend the money (and it doesn't seem like much in TB terms -- heck I've paid $2000 on a dog stud fee, though given I got a whole litter) on Golden Grail. She's only six, plenty of time to see if she will throw her pedigree -- that is, if she has the reproductive health to carry her foals to term. I think definitely worth the investment though.
  • No problem @sarinne. It's interesting some of the things that can e found on twitter hahaha.
  • Have the mares and fillies out of Street Cry been good producers in general? Does Zenyatta has a female half sibling that has produced winners? I mean the stallions out of Street Cry are well known, but is there any daughter producing outstanding foals out there?
  • I can't answer your question about Street Cry daughters, as it's late here and my brain is dead, but I've been particularly intrigued by this mare, sired by Street Cry's sire. She also includes Forli in her pedigree. And she is blessed by a very potent distaff line, as well.

    http://www.pedigreequery.com/halwa+sweet

    She has three GI winning offspring out of sons of Sunday Silence. That's why I suggested, a couple weeks ago, going to a Halo line stallion with Zenyatta as an option. This is probably old news (I can't remember if I posted this in this thread previously), but I thought I'd bring it up since you asked @Julky . :)
  • It's hard to look up on pedigreequery because most of his stuff raced outside the US and there are an awful lot of offspring. I lost interest around the "h"s.
  • So I reallyshouldn't post things in the middle of the night when I am sleepy..........I'm really worried about those Sunday Silence sons that got pregnant by Halwa Sweet. :lol:

    Oh, I wouldn't even try looking up Street Cry daughters, whoodler!
  • Sons that got pregnant? Really Sarinne as a breeder? B)
  • S
    must be the same sons who produce foals!
  • Yeah, it was 1:00 am and...........ugh! I need to quit posting period. I stick the foot in deeper each time. :warning:
  • edited December 2017
    Set Them Free's daughter, Styler, produced another stakes quality runner, when her daughter Almond Roca won the Sandpiper Stakes today.

    Thanks QZF22 for the heads up on that. Keeps me intrigued about Set Them Free's granddaughter Golden Grail.

    So is a pedigree like this worth taking a chance on? Sold for $9,000 last month (2017 Keeneland November Breed Stock) and is entered right back in the upcoming Barretts 2018 January Mixed Sale. A young mare, with what appears to be a very good pedigree, selling for only $9,000 last month. Her conformation must be cause for pause, or what???




  • What you guys of Talismanic? I mean that pedigree has some similarities to Z17.
  • They are both by MEDAGLIA D' ORO. What else are you seeing that is similar?
    Julky said:

    What you guys of Talismanic? I mean that pedigree has some similarities to Z17.

  • They are both by MEDAGLIA D' ORO. What else are you seeing that is similar?

    Julky said:

    What you guys of Talismanic? I mean that pedigree has some similarities to Z17.

    @Especially_Horses his second dam is by Machiavellian who is also the sire of Street Cry.
  • Exactly, so there is a bit so similarities in the cross.
  • WezzieWezzie Member
    edited December 2017
    Couldn't find a more appropriate thread so...what do you guys think of Star Guitar as a young stallion? He is having significant local success with multiple stakes winners (non-graded). I like his confirmation for a speed horse. And I loved Quiet American!
    https://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/165734/star-guitar
  • bleubettybleubetty Member
    edited January 2018

    Not sure if this fits this discussion but I found this to be a very interesting read. Broodmares: your buying guide: https://ownerbreeder.co.uk/columns/broodmares-buying-guide/#.WivMVAVY0PU.twitter

    Thanks Queen Z --- that was a very insightful article. I love seeing mares succeed as mama's when they were less than successful as runners. Breeding is such a gamble, it's great when someone finds a golden nugget at a price that's in their ballpark.

    I have really enjoyed the comments and discussion about Set Them Free. I've been a fan of this Blue Hen mare for years, read every article I could find --- she was a real speedster when she was racing. She has consistently produced offspring who find some level of success on the track. Giacomo and Tiago were her best but her fillies could put in a good run, too. I have never been able to find out any info on her last foal, 2014 filly by Street Cry, apparently named Florian. Nothing shows up anywhere, I assumed this filly didn't survive as she isn't listed in Set Them Free's progeny. Anybody know anything about her?
  • She shows up in Equibase, but with no statistics. She may be at a training facility somewhere, but with no official works as yet.
  • If still alive she is now considered a 4 year old and I would suspect, with no workouts to date, she most likely will not be raced. Maybe she will be bred this year. As a side note, the Moss' first choice for her name was Stargate, but that name was rejected due to being too similar to Starr Gate, a name which was already in use.

    She shows up in Equibase, but with no statistics. She may be at a training facility somewhere, but with no official works as yet.

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