Zellda (Medaglia d'Oro x Zenyatta)

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Comments

  • ZenyenZenyen Member
    Just for some added flavor, Zenyatta is not just tall and long, she is what some would term a 'big bodied' mare with a lot of bone.

    Look at Songbird and RA. They are both tall and they are long (that topline you spoke of) but like EliRose said, they are light in frame and bone. This is very much how MdO stamps his fillies, they are incredibly feminine and Zellda is very much stamped that way.

    Zenyatta, is actually quite masculine in terms of frame and size. If you were to take Zenyatta at racing weight, age five and Zellda at racing weight age five, there would probably be close to 300 lb difference.

    Now it's hard to tell in the videos, but unless her workmate is either a) An older horse or b) A freak of a giant, Zellda is still significantly smaller than her workmate. Also looking at the leg on her exercise rider ... I'd put her at 15.0 hands, which suggests to me that she'll top out at just under 16hands by the time she's fully grown.

    It's curious genetics that a big mare like Zenyatta, from a large dam herself, is throwing relatively small foals. First Ziconic and now Zellda. CoZ is more the average size I would have been expecting from Zenyatta. Okay just did a quick lookie loo, and Ziconic is actually the spitting body type of Machiavellian, so I suspect the height may be coming down through Street Cry.
  • KMMKMM Member
    She is very feminine. B)
  • ZenyenZenyen Member
    edited April 11
    Yep, EliRose hit the nail on the head. She is 100% her daddy's filly.

    But ooof, those forearms, and gaskins. I hope those develop a lot more.
  • sarinnesarinne Member
    Thanks so much for the rundown, @Zenyen, much appreciated to hear the background. I definitely can put that into my mind in the way of looking at dog breeding. Some sires and dams are so prepotent it really doesn't matter who you breed them to, you know to expect you'll get A, B and C traits . Sounds like Zenyatta is the opposite.
  • sarinnesarinne Member
    Ooooh she looks very different with her tack off -- that was a good lesson for my novice eye :blush:

    Thoughts on her legs?
  • ZenyenZenyen Member
    edited April 11
    I added an edit to my post just above yours.

    The term I would use is yikes!

    But it does look like they got the club foot addressed nicely.
  • EliRoseEliRose Member
    I will say the daintiness does not change much at all with maturity, either. You’ll see MdO broodmares who are still exceptionally dainty-looking even after multiple foals. They just don’t bulk up, unlike say Tapit or Kitten’s Joy daughters. His sons are generally also “pretty boys,” the most masculine one I’ve seen is Vancouver and not by much.

    His horses simply don’t change much looks-wise from yearlings to grown, which is part of why they’re SO commercial. It’s probably also why you thought she looked bigger, @sarrine. You know what you’re gonna get early, as they grow they’re not so all over the place - for better or worse.
  • ZenyenZenyen Member
    @sarinne

    Prepotent is something I've brought up before because you're right, Zenyatta shows absolute no direct prepotency herself.

    CoZ resembles Grama V more than Zenyatta
    Ziconic is a classic Tapit.
    Princess Z was actually the one foal who appeared to be a good mix of War Front and Zenyatta. I did see more Zenyatta in her than in any other surviving foal.
    Z16 we never saw standing, though his head reminded me a lot of Princess Z so who knows what might have been.
    Zellda is a classic MdO filly
    Z18 we'll never know.
  • sarinnesarinne Member
    Thanks, @Zenyen and @EliRose -- I can definitely understand your comments in the context of my dog breeding experience. From prepotency, to sires/dams who throw babies who look so good early they finish their championship as babies and then get put away never to be seen again (except maybe for the bitches when they are bred). And I'm guessing all of that can be applied in the context of MdO -- prepotency, and colts/fillies that race well early then are either retired fully or put to stud and only seen there, particularly the daughters. And I'm sure there are plenty of daughters that are not raced and sent directly to the shed. Happens in dogs too.......

    Interesting, Elirose that Kitten's Joy daughters are so different than their paternal half siblings (yes I know in TBs that doesn't count). Just shows perhaps that MdO reflects his dam line more, or maybe Kitten's Joy does. But that would be an El Prado discussion for another thread. :)

    Thank you everyone for all your help and comments and willingness to suffer through educating a novice. I am eager to learn hence the start of the conformation thread. Even after more than twenty years in my breed I'm still very very eager to learn history and puppy development. I'm lucky to have had mentors that could pick out champions "when they were still wet", and I am always very grateful when people share their knowledge with me. :)

    Back to Zellda -- grateful for the update, photos and videos on her...........now to wait for a tidbit at least on Ziconic!
  • sarinnesarinne Member
    Oh also one thing I would say in my defense -- looking at a horse with tack on is like for some of you trying to figure out if a fully coated dog is correct or not. Even just looking at a photo is not enough, and it takes a lot of discernment with a fine eye and hands on thoroughly. Sometimes you are pleasantly surprised, maybe by the lack of decent grooming that there is an excellent dog under there, sometimes you find that a mediocre dog has been carved into an excellent dog with skilled grooming. A lot of folks like to say we should always show outside during downpours, or when the dog is soaking wet to see what lies underneath. :tongue: But then there are the dog standards that specify coat textures, etc too, so that's not really an option.
  • Zenyen said:

    Yep, EliRose hit the nail on the head. She is 100% her daddy's filly.

    But ooof, those forearms, and gaskins. I hope those develop a lot more.

    I wonder if they will back off with her and maybe let her grow into herself as she looks fairly weak two year old.

    Sarinne - we are all still learning every day thats what makes us grow
  • KMMKMM Member
    Racingfan hit it on the head about learning.
  • LionessLioness Member
    I suspect she’ll be shipped off to the track within a month or two but won’t start until she’s three, like Coz and Zi.
  • KMMKMM Member
    The above observations make me think they may leave her there longer or send her to a second schooling farm. She does look underdeveloped and even fragile.
  • sarinnesarinne Member
    Thanks all -- I do desire to learn as much as I can and I am ever so grateful when you all share. I know from being mentored and mentoring both myself. We never quit learning, and I really want to know everything I can about conformation, pedigrees, history and racing. :)
  • tincuptincup Member
    edited April 11
    Ounce on the hoof, pound on the back?
    Three white socks, give her away...hello Rachel
    Four, not on any day...hello talismanic
    Touch of an Angel
    Beautiful coat
    Light on her feet
    Watch her go...

    In a month I'll know if she'll fly
    In two I'll know it's three
    In three I'll wonder if ever
    In five I mayn't try.
    ( Dont get mad, I was just goofing )

    Many of the fastest times with the two year olds are never seen real early, yet remember that crazy private workout of the pharo, June two year old season? He showed his stuff off in march or April to get there by June..
    For once just try something a little different from the past... Of course only if she's willing
  • Tincup you are spot on, she looks to me like what is called a backward or back end two year old over here and which normally wouldnt be seen out til the back end of the season if at all this year. To throw in a real curve ball maybe ship her to the Uk, send her to John Gosden ( a master with fillies) from the start and run on the turf over here, less pounding on those fragile looking pins.

    Ps if I continue your line of thinking then its a mercy that she is not a chestnut mare with 4 white feet
  • If she were, Tincup wouldn't be having this conversation at all.
  • Remember, she's not even two yet, chronologically.
  • I agree with the statements you all have made regarding saving this filly and the bloodline for broodmare duties as opposed to risking her. Our racing barn was a "ladies only" (except for one Storm Cat gelding who we just loved and won:) as we just somehow happened to have fillies and mares running for us. We loved each and every one as individuals, even the one SC daughter who did not get a chance to run as she was so injured by the training starting gate falling on her and cutting her shoulder to pieces...she is a spoiled "lawn ornament" now :) Anyway, looking at the video of Zelda it seems that she is not putting her full weight on the right front leg; it that the one that had the clubfoot and/or surgery? If you look at the other horse, and even videos of other runners doing the trot, you will note that they will plant all four firmly, IMHO, she does not seem to be doing this.
    Again, agreeing with most of you...why risk this precious filly?! The only daughter of Zenny? I have always been told by our trainer and many others who have first concern for the horse: If ANY doubt, don't do it! Let this filly not take any chances, let her grow, baby her, take care of her legs, but by God, keep her off the dirt, esp. Santa Anita where the "owners" seem to bask in the glory of yesteryear... It seems as if Zenny needs to be cherished for who SHE is, she has had back luck at the broodmare thing.. I, for one, would love to see her at the KY Horse Park! Imagine that, if any of you have had the incredible experience of seeing the show for the Hall of Champions, being able to get up and actually see her in person, they do not let her fans like us near her. At least Rachel's owners do, and they put her first, she had 2 foals, 2 winners, but cared more for her life than to keep breeding her. I vote for Zelda to be allowed to grow fat on a farms vast fields and have healthy babies, I'm voting for American Pharoah to be the daddy. He is not only showing he is going to be a spectacular sire, but he is also a very kind horse. Not the kind that want to bite your face off.

    Sorry for the long post...its been awhile, and yes, I am concerned for the streak of bad luck to continue on to Zelda. :(
  • RachelRachel Member
    Theres nothing wrong with her.
  • KMMKMM Member
    She hasn't done anything yet.
  • LionessLioness Member
    Her club foot is her front left, the leg with the white sock, not the front right.
  • ZenyenZenyen Member
    Rachel said:

    Theres nothing wrong with her.

    Oh there is plenty wrong with her. How much she can develop out of and remain sound in training remains to be seen.
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