Horse Slaughter

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Comments

  • edited November 2013
    For one thing, as I said, you are either ignorant or lying.
    LCarol, so you continue to call me names. Yep, I did YELL, but at least not one time did I call you ignorant or lying. One more thing LCAROL. How do you know I am pro slaughter? Because I made a comment? Because I said it would be nice for someone to tell us all who is going to take care of all the dumped horses.Where does that say I am pro slaughter?
    And it can be quick and painless if done correctly, just like a bullet to the head. But, it does have to be placed in the right spot. Not going to keep arguing with you.
    I have NEVER called anyone a liar or ignorant. And I never will.
    Too bad you do not have the same manners.
    I believe that I am going to now leave this thread, but not before I report you LCarol for personally attacking me and calling me a liar and ignorant. Have a nice day
  • 1. As one who has fought horse slaughter since the 1980's, I can tell you all that the issue here goes much deeper than the so called "humane" slaughter which by the way is impossible with a horse, as even Dr Temple Grandin herself said. (other than a direct shot at close range between the eyes with a .22).

    2. The people who are fighting slaughter are by and large not members of HSUS or PETA. We are horse owners.

    3. You are mistaken wyoming grandma about there being no where for these horses to go. In my state alone we have about 24 state licensed equine rescue farms that are supported by people like me who donate regularly to these rescue farms. In addition the Georgia Department of Agriculture has a hot line that anyone can call and anonymously report abused or starving horses. An agent goes out immediately to review the situation and the owners are either counseled or the horses are confiscated and turned over to one the state certified equine rescues or the Georgia Equine Rescue League. The horses are rehabilitated (often by equine veterinarians who perform the services pro bono), they are assessed as to their training level or are trained and are placed in good homes. Even the thoroughbred industry has an excellent program whereby horses are taken into the program and rehabilitated and placed for adoption These came rescues go to the auctions and buy horses that are being run through for slaughter.

    4. You have all been sold a bill of goods if you think that only old, sick or broken down horses go to slaughter. The killers will take a horse of any age and they do not care if the horse is stolen or what its history is. They do not even require the sellers to show proof of ownership.

    5. With horse meat selling for $21 a lb on the export market, the killers will buy horses to slaughter from private individuals and at auctions, never having to divulge that they will be slaughtering the horses.

    6. These horses are held in holding areas for weeks waiting to be shipped to slaughter without sufficient food and water and no medical treatment for injuries. They are then loaded up on dirty, filthy, disease ridden transports that are crowded and hauled for hours and hours without food and water.

    7. These transports travel through states such as mine that require all horses transported in the state have proof of negative coggins and all horses passing through the state or coming into the state have valid health certificates issued within 30 days of transport and proof of immunizations for West Nile, Rabies, EWT and flu.

    8. These transports can spread diseases into the general horse population via blood born and air borne pathogens for which there is not preventative vaccine or cure such as EIA and EHV-neurological.

    9. Horses have not had their natural instincts bred out of them...the same instincts that have allowed them to survive for eons...by we so called
    superior humans". They can smell death, the blood in the chutes and they try to flee it.

    10. Horses are also treated with medications, herbal supplements, wormers etc that form a residue in the meat and tissue. Many of these same medications are toxic to humans. We already know that giving protein meat animals such as chickens and cattle antibiotics have enabled the super bugs to become resistant to most of our antibiotics. In other words, horses are not raised for human consumption.

    11. There is no such thing as 100% USDA inspection and drug testing on carcasses. In fact the USDA is cutting back on inspectors and leaving adherence to the CFR to the plants and processors. Drug testing on every carcass would be impossible for any company to be able to handle financially. And do not kid yourselves, there are unethical processors and there are inspectors that can be bought off to turn their heads.

    Now if any of you wish to argue my points 10 and 11, bring it on...I will warn you that I have worked in the meat and poultry industry for 25 years.

    12. The BLM has done a miserable job of managing the wild mustang herds which by the way compete with free, open range cattle, goats and sheep on government lands. These horses were here long before the western states were even settled, yet there is a push to eliminate their existence as the ranchers think they are destroying their grazing lands...which by the way belong to the American people, not them.

    Let me give you a scenario..suppose Zenyatta was in foal and had some medical condition that would mean she could not foal and the Mosses decided to squeeze the last cent of money out of her by selling her for slaughter. When she gets to slaughter, her stomach is ripped open and her unborn foal is ripped from her uterus. She is lying on the slaughterhouse floor in pain and unbearable suffering from having her stomach ripped open and in extreme mental anguish seeing her dead foal. You would all be shocked and mortified and there would be an outrage. Tell me, is Zenyatta anymore special to not have to endure this than say one of my mares?

    Suppose someone went into training facility and stole Cozmic One and his buddies in training and he was transported across country and slaughtered. Is Cozmic One anymore special than the pony of a little girl that is stolen in the middle of the night and taken for slaughter and she cries her eyes out for months over the loss of her beloved pony?

    And is a stallion like War Front anymore special than a proud and free Mustang stallion who, along with his band of mares is taken to slaughter?

    Did you know that it is estimated that 60,000 pounds of beef and horse meat blend that was sold in Europe that had not been tested made its way into the United States?

    How would you feel if you child had been eaten this meat with a drug residue that cost the child their life?

    How do you feel about all the sudden deaths of our children. Steroids and hormones are given to horses and we do not yet know its impact on the food supply. Could it be that steroid and hormone residues are causing these sudden heart attacks in children.

    And how do you feel about the Premarin mares who stand in stalls 24/7, bred, with a bag collecting their urine to make female replacement hormones for women, which by the way have been proven to increase breast and cervical cancer in the women who take them? And the poor mare, when she foals, the baby's throat is slashed. Some of the foals are allowed to live long enough to get big enough to slaughter.

    It is estimated that there are 9 million horses in this country and the killers would slaughter every single one of them.

    Did you know that the bankrupt country of Spain is seizing farms that breed the Andalusians and they are taking the horses to slaughter and there is the risk that bloodlines will be lost forever?

    The Shire Draft horse is almost extinct in Great Britain as the result of slaughter.

    The big breeders love horse slaughter...it first eliminates the grade horse that is in the price range of the backyard horse lover. If you want a horse, you have no choice but buy from them if you can afford it.

    This is all about greed and big PACS that can lobby Washington bureaucrats and state governors and state assemblies that there is a need to start horse slaughter...all those starving horses need to be mercifully slaughtered.

    Granted the failing economy over the past five years has resulted in many horse owners having to give up their horses, but there are options open to them.

    Some of you have said that slaughter is a necessary evil... I beg to differ...evil...yes, necessary, no.

    If you really want to help horses, including the Thoroughbreds, donate as you can to your local horse charities and rescues. Help raise money for funds to buy these horses out of the hands of the killers at auctions. Report abused and starving horses so that they can placed in rescues. Encourage your friends to not run their horses through auctions, that the killers are there buying and do not have to tell them they are killers. If someone wants to sell their horse, tell them to be aware of the price horse meat is bringing,.estimate their horses weight, multiply that times the going price and set their price above that amount. Petition your governor and state senators and legislatures to not license the horse slaughter operations in your state. Contact your US Senator and US Representative to support the bills put forth in the House and the Senate that will end horse slaughter forever. And one more thing, the argument that people do not have land to bury a horse on...local governments are obligated to pick-up and bury horses under health laws in most every state. And if that is not possible, you can always call a rendering company to come pick-up dead horse.

    Sad is the day when we send carriage horses that can work no more, or police horses to slaughter or healthy, usable horses to slaughter or try to eliminate the American Mustang over land use.

    I never have, do not nor will I ever apologize for my stand on this issue. I will never ever sell any of my horses to slaughter and have in fact have given instructions on what is to happen to my horses if I die before they do. Horses are companion animals, like cats and dogs. They have served mankind for thousands of years. They are not raised for human consumption and the drugs and medications that they are treated with will put humans at risk...which brings me to another point...the drugs and medications..be aware that a movement is underway to prohibit us from treating our horses with medications, receiving vaccinations and even being given wormers so as to satisfy the drug residue requirements for horses being slaughtered for human consumption. How would you feel if Zenyatta was sick and the Mosses were told that she could no longer have that life saving medication as it would violate federal laws for animals being slaughtered for human consumption.

    Starting horse slaughter again is like opening Pandora's box. You never know what is going to come out of that box.












  • OMG, that's a lot to take into consideration LyndaK. When I have to ask you to get along, you know you need it. I didn't think this issue had so many complications.

    I hope you two ladies find some common ground. I believe you have the same goals.
  • Where is this movement to stop us from medicating? Just curious. Sounds bizarre and unenforceable.
  • I don't know. The slaughter issue is out there. The difference is that the Racing Press isn't covering slaughter, but they somewhat do cover medication issues.

    In a sense, it's a whole different ballgame.
  • edited November 2013
    LyndaK, Wow, I love all these comments and points. Outstanding! I followed Mike's Auction in So. Cal on Auction Horses Rescue facebook last night. They had about six older broodmares who had been dumped at auction, a few who were possibly pregnant, tattoos faded, sold to kill. Horrible. Also, a paint mare AND her foal. She was so protective of her little look-alike foal who was oblivious to what was happening. I cried all night long. I woke up to news the mare and foal were saved at the last minute. But how and why did they end up there? It's a miracle they were saved. Many others weren't. The only happy story, besides the mom & babe, a 13 y/o broodmare TB named Bruheria was saved at around 2 a.m. by Burt Bacharach and his wife when they got word on her. They had sold her nine years ago and found out where she was and saved her. Thank God or she would have sold to kill. These broodmares just thrown away after being used up. A 2 y/o gelding was there, but I believe was saved. I believe 10 horses in total were saved and the rest, of which there were too many, sold to kill. Some came straight from the track at Los Al. It is all despicable to me. It's not just money needed to buy these horses, they need people with room to give them homes and there aren't enough. 2013 Breeder's Cup wagering totaled $160 million. Why aren't percentages taken out to help all these horses? Millions being made while horses sent to slaughter. The rescue last night was BEGGING people to help and give homes to these horses, but not enough people were able to help. I sent a donation, but I have no place for a horse. It is heartbreaking. And LyndaK is right, most horses have no papers and older ones have faded tattoos. The only thing I disagree with, LyndaK, is that not enough rescues are around to take these horses. It makes me literally sick knowing there are not enough and if there are, they're not made aware of these auctions because they're not showing up and these happen all the time just in So. California.
  • markinsacmarkinsac Member
    edited November 2013
    I'm trying to draw a parallel between the slaughter and medication issue.

    IF THOSE IN THE INDUSTRY DON'T CARE A WHOLE LOT IF THE HORSES END UP IN SLAUGHTER, DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD HESITATE ON PUMPING THEM FULL OF DRUGS?

    And let me not paint ALL or even MOST owners and trainers into this circle. A vast amount in the industry DO care. Sometimes it's not easy to keep up with their former horses; some are strapped for funds. Not all owners/trainers are basking in disposable cash.

    But we do owe these precious animals more care. They don't ask to be athletes. We breed them to.
  • Agree markinsac, the horses are at our mercy and we aren't taking care of them and that includes the drugging and aftercare for them. Apparently, many industry trainers and owners don't care. They want to squeeze every last drop out of the horses and then, throw them away.
  • Ok, the medication link. Horse slaughter comes under the USDA (United States Department of Agriculture) that regulates beef, pork, sheep, goats, poultry eggs, chickens and turkeys) and emu and ostriches. This also includes dairy products such as cow and goat milk. None of these products can enter commerce (sold for human consumption) without being inspected and passed by a USDA inspector. Every slaughter plant and processing plant has a USDA inspection number that has to go on the product. In addition to regulating the slaughter and processing, the USDA also has control on the animal raising practices for these meat animals and in conjunction with the FDA or Food and Drug Administration decides what medications can be given to the meat animals and which ones cannot be administered. Typically the drugs that are outlawed are ones that stay in the muscle and tissue of the meat animal as I alluded to above. If horse slaughter is started up again in this country full time and in every state, horses will lose their "companion animal" status and become subject to the rules and regulations that apply to all meat animals. In other words, even pleasure horses and back yard pets will come under the same drug laws as the meat animals. Because horse meat will be in competition with beef, chicken and pork markets, these growers and processors will demand that the same rules and regulations that apply to them as far as diet, drugs, medications etc will have to apply to horses. So, if your horse is sick, you may or may not be allowed to give them certain drugs as they could end up at slaughter and not pass to enter the food chain. The simplest example I can give is wormers. Right now you can go into any farm store or online to buy wormer and administer as needed without a prescription from a vet. Since horse wormers are not for use in horses going to slaughter, you would need a have it administered by the vet and information about the horse given that drug entered in their health record. There are other things looming on the horizon for meat animals. Horses, once they lose their companion animal status will have to registered at the USDA. This same law will apply to cattle, pigs etc. If there is a disease outbreak in your area of EHV-neurological for example and it has been determined that a positive EHV horse can pass on something like mad cow disease if they are slaughtered and eaten, then all horses in the vicinity of the outbreak will have to be slaughtered. This has already happened in Great Britain. It has already happened in this country with chickens. If there is an outbreak of avian influenza, then the entire flock has to be destroyed so as to contain it from being spread to other flocks. What I am trying so hard to impress on all of you that slaughtering horses will lead to their being classified as meat animals and loss of companion animal status and over time, there will be no more horses for pleasure riding and thoroughbred racing. Now this may take years and hopefully not in my lifetime, but it will happen eventually. That Pandora's box will have been opened and it is almost impossible to reverse what happens.
  • Louise Costello, you might be interested to know that the rescues that I am affiliated with have told us that when they go to the auctions to try and save horses that are bound for slaughter, the auctioneers often give preferential treatment to the killers who are bidding on the horses as well. He will keep taking their bids and ignore the rescue bids and in a split second, hammer down and sold to the killers. They suspect that the killers are paying off the auctioneers and or the auction house to favor them in the bid process. There are also "illegal auctions". Legal auctions are supposed to be conducted with a state animal health or USDA vet on hand to demand proof of negative coggins or pull a coggins on site before the horse can enter the auction. At the illegal auction there are no state or USDA vets. So horses are sold without proof of negative coggins.
  • Thank You,LyndaK; you have explained the meds/slaughter link to me perfectly. I have raised meat animals for sale at our local county fair junior livestock auction. We have to have proof of the health, parentage, immunization hx of the animals we are selling. It would have a huge and negative impact on horse ownership to try and hold the standards set for meat animals applied to horses. It's a nightmare I do not want to contemplate.
  • We just need to get the word out on the truth about horse slaughter. Please, please do not be misled that this is all a show from PETA and HSUS, though we have relied on the HSUS for legal assistance. I am fully aware of what PETA's ultimate goal is.No one and particularly me wants to see or hear about starving or abused horses. But there is hope for them other than slaughter. These equine rescue organizations do an awesome, awesome job of bringing these horses back to health, rehabilitating them and finding them forever homes. Right now I have two that I took in from a friend who could not longer feed her horses. I would take more if I had the room. The dedication of the rescues is truly inspirational. Some of them even take in abused and starving dogs, cats and other animals such as sheep and goats and even cattle and pigs. Our law enforcement agencies are so cooperative in helping to get these animals into a safe haven. And all of you are so right about the over breeding. Eventually horse breeders will have to have a license to breed horses. If you recall, the state governments have cracked down on the "puppy mills" and the catteries (for cats). We cannot save every horse or cat or dog, but we can make every effort to save as many as we can. No donation is too small, $10 a month will help. Other ways to help is to volunteer at one for farms. Many people are maxed out on horses, but when the call comes to seize the horses from abusive homes, they will pull their trailers as far away couple of hundred miles to pick-up the horses. Others save their proof of purchase seals from horse feeds for the rescues to turn in for grain. Others will donate unused tack, riding clothes etc for selling at yard sales..others will hold fund raisers such as bake sales. There are just so many, many ways to help other than cash donations. I think we can win this fight, but we have be strong and stand united and get the truth out there. Thank you all for reading these long, long posts and for your caring and understanding and your love of horses.
  • You know, if they send WILD horses to slaughter, they do not have to worry about medication. If the BLM could get away with sending all the horses they have in holding to slaughter, they would.
  • Isn't there a degree of intelligence that comes to play? We don't eat intelligent animals, like dogs, cats, etc ( Ps, I think cats are more intelligent than dogs). I think we also classify horses as "Intelligent." Now horse bettors, that's another story. Maybe we should eat them. But the meat would be tough, most of them are grumpy old men like me.
  • Isn't there a degree of intelligence that comes to play? We don't eat intelligent animals, like dogs, cats, etc ( Ps, I think cats are more intelligent than dogs). I think we also classify horses as "Intelligent." Now horse bettors, that's another story. Maybe we should eat them. But the meat would be tough, most of them are grumpy old men like me.
    We shouldn't eat animals that have served us well, either. I mean, I can't imagine having a horse for years.. and just because I want to forego the "removal of carcass" fee or whatever, I'll sell that horse to kill buyer. It's truly despicable. And I've seen it go down just like that.

    And as for intelligence.. A chicken once beat me at a game of tic-tac-toe. Ok.. twice.
  • I have found a few articles on the issue of aftercare for retired race horses. It seems that Suffolk Downs in East Boston, MA has taken the leadership on this issue:

    http://www.boston.com/sports/other_sports/horse_racing/articles/2008/09/17/trainer_rides_to_the_rescue/

    Another web site I've found. I hope it's helpful:

    http://www.canterusa.org/

    My point being is I think we should reward and promote tracks that are willing to help the cause. Help us help horses and we will help promote your track.
  • edited November 2013
    Check out these yearlings that were being auctioned to kill buyers last weekend and, thankfully, saved and scroll down a little to see the baby who was there to be sold with her mom. Really? Who does these things?
    https://www.facebook.com/auctionhorses
  • Louise, in your estimation, how much does it cost to keep and maintain a horse for a year?
  • edited November 2013
    Markinsac, I believe around $3500.00 a year which doesn't include re-training if that has to be done or transportation.
  • If anyone (in the US) is interested in sending a personal message to their Senators and Representatives about horse slaughter, you can through this link:

    http://act.wildhorsepreservation.org/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=13157

    If enough people stand up and speak out against horse slaughter, we won't be ignored.
  • I just do not get sending a horse to an auction. The very last thing a faithful horse should feel in this life is a needle stick. Louise, the pictures at the auction are heartbreaking. The broodmares esp. tear me up. Clearly, over breeding is a huge problem. These people bred that mare, planned that foal. They take no responsibility for what happens to it. My daughter's 25 yr old AQHA died in August. I joked that I was supporting a pensioner. That mare gave my daughter and I the best memories of our lives. 4H ribbons, trail rides, pretty pictures. I have a shrine to her on a little side table. She collapsed and died in the night, no signs of a struggle, her legs crumpled underneath her. If she had been suffering, I would have called the vet to put her down and then the hauler. $400 in my area; vet and hauler combined. We clipped some hair from her forelock, mane and tail, I found a company that makes beautiful bracelets with silver fastenings. These poor auction horses, it's heartbreaking.
  • ZenyenZenyen Member
    edited November 2013
    This is going to cause some discussion on both sides of the pond about horse slaughter. Princess Anne has raised the question, should the British consider eating horse meat.

    It breaks down European countries that consume horse meat and also has a diagram of how a horse is rendered for consumption. Just to warn people who may be delicate to that frank an address of the topic.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24952823
  • Hi Zenyen, I am sure glad to see you here, you are missed. This whole slaughter thing is surely disturbing me. I think everyone knows how I feel, totally against it; however, what in the world are we going to do? The people in the industry who can help with these issues, won't. I truly at this point believe they don't care. Many of them do believe slaughter is a necessary evil (including Bill Mott, who I understand stated that is was) and many more. I know I could never eat horse meat myself. If someone put a gun to my head and said you have to support horse slaughter, they would at least have to make it more humane somehow. No taking mares and foals, for one thing. Isn't there a more humane way to euthanize these animals rather than load in to cattle trucks and have babies and some adults be trampled to death? Why can't owners just euthanize the poor horses the way we do with our dogs and cats? The whole thing is just horrendous to me. The Breeder's Cup makes $160 million on wagering and they can't support retirements for used up racehorses? I just have so many questions and no answers. Zenyen, I hope you come around more!
  • RachelRachel Member
    edited November 2013
    sorry to inform you of this if you all already havent known. Aldi food market admits to having up to 100% horse meat in its beef products.

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/feb/09/aldi-100-percent-horsemeat-beef-products
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