Triple Crown by Decade

slewpyslewpy Member
Seems, except for Sir Barton, there are 3 TC decades:

3 TC winners in the 1930s
4 TC winners in the 1940s
3 TC winners in the 1970s

I just find this most interesting and don't know what the implications are going forward.


  • kurtkurt Member
    well, 2013, weve got plenty of years left to get a few in this decade..would be nice.the sport needs it although the way the american thoroughbred is bred with so much speed and unsoundness, im not sure its do-able..although orb looked nice today in the derby
  • American TBs are not bred unsound. If that were the case, then American-born stock would not be popular with overseas buyers, and U.S. stallions wouldn't be shuttling in the off season. People keep talking about American TBs as if they were a separate population from other TBs. They are not. Pedigrees of top U.S and non-U.S. horses are similar, and there's no difference genetically among TB populations in various countries. The differences are in horse housing, conditioning and training methods, racing surface, and drug policies, not in the horses' genes. We'll have another Triple Crown winner when we have trainers who train for the Triple Crown.
  • edited May 2013
    and good ole Shug is the "old school" trainer to do just that! No white bridles, no junk on it, no ear plugs, no nose patches, blinkers, nothing but basic old tradition. A regular bit and regular bridle that those of us that have horses use all the time. That is what it's all about. I can remember him stating years ago what he did about Orb yesterday, he lets the HORSE let him know when they are ready, does not push them along for just a certain date. (aka schoolboy Pletcher LOL) That's why Shug has not had a lot of horses in the Derby; he lets them do it on their terms, and he guides them along. A championship combination!
  • Paniolo_GalPaniolo_Gal Member
    edited May 2013
    I am not arguing the issue that US thoroughbreds are bred for speed not durability these days...but it is so unfortunate that we have not had a Triple Crown winner since the 1970s.
    Perhaps American Thoroughbreds are popular to Oversees breeders who are looking to bring in "new" blood to their stock...who knows. Perhaps we should also look oversees to import new bloodlines ourselves. But I agree that an "old school philosophy" needs to be brought back. However, the responsibility not only lies on the trainer...but also the breeder as well and how young foals are brought up. The use/overuse of modern drugs is also a factor. The bottom line is each time we have a breakdown on the track, it affects the popularity of the sport.
    Below please find an interesting article written by William Nack which covers these aspects. The article starts out on the issue of the brittle bone DNA from the Native Dancer, Northern Dancer, Raise A Native and Mr. Prospector sirelines. A perfect example of a disaster waiting to happen: Eight Belles was crossed four times with Native Dancer in her top and bottom pedigree.
  • oh..Eight Belles, loved her as well, such a tragedy. Bill Nack is a great writer and I have been lucky enough to have personal correspondence from him. He is the gem of horse lore! And facts. I was watching the early a.m. racing from Newmarket yesterday morning, as I just was so into the Derby, I had to watch something! Anyway, I noticed a much more 'distinguished' look about the conformation to those horses. It was very noticeable right away. I have to think their style of training is the one that more American trainers need to look towards. In almost every race, they had both fillies, mares, geldings and colts racing together, and a mare blew away the field from start to finish. To them, that's everyday racing; to us, its something extraordinary. Hmm...
  • EriNCEriNC Member
    part of the problem with eight belles was being an unbridled song filly. unbridled song progeny while fast statistically break down more than others. eight belles full brother raced once, was pulled up, vanned off, then gelded and sold without pedigree.
  • And a very BIG THANK YOU, to you Paniolo Gal, for posting that article. Such a true and sad statement of today's TB's. The exact reason all of ours are in the pastures 24/7 unless THEY wish to come in. And we do not even start to mess with them until at least age 4. We do not abuse babies...and 2 year olds are babies. I wish the Derby would be for 4 year olds, we cannot even get a 3 year old to finish all the TC races lately. Best of hopes for Orb, but he is not immune to this as well :( And how true; the greedy chronic yearly commercial breeders are the ones that has brought this sport to its knees, literally. Sad. It does indeed need to be discussed more, as the "I just need to have that mare bred" train of thought process so we can get another sale type of folk, are the ones that have caused this mess. Such a shame.
  • kurtkurt Member
    LAURA- i have to respectfully disagree. while the euros may indeed import alot of our stock..for whatever there reasons are, im not qualified to speak for them.. the american horse today are bred for speed. our owners are typical of the "now" generation of people who have to win immediately. and how do you do that?..breed fast horses because all the two year old races are short, sprints. no one wants to wait..heaven forbid..for a horse to mature and maybe win later. the epitome of that is a horse like big brown who had bad feet..what a surprise, hes the son of a stallion that had bad feet. think BB's offspring will have the same issue?..time will tell. personally, it makes me ill the way we breed to win at two with immature horses who break down at three, or BEST CASE win in the fall of there 3 yr old campaign and are then sent off to stud with less then 10 starts. if we(american breeders/owners) weren't so impatient, maybe they would breed a horse that, perhaps matured late but was sound and durable. that, in turn, would help the sport because the casual fan could actually follow a horse insted of having them gone nearly as soon as they become relevant. Animal kingdom..who i admit may not be the best example of soundness..just ran one of the most impressive races we've seen in ages as a 5 yr old. what if he had been sent off after winning the derby. no one would have ever seen the dubai race.Game on dude(thank God hes a gelding) is amazing at 6. who knows how good a horse like ghostzapper or even bernardini could have really been. todays thoroughbreds may be fast,,perhaps faster then there ancestors of the last 50 years, but if i was wealthy(im not) and had a time machine, i'd take a horse like round table who ran 54(?) times and even more recently devil his due(44 starts?) over most of the horses of the last 15 years
    devil his due stands for $3500 and gets few mares. why?.. because even though his offspring are incredibly sound, they dont win at 2 so hes not fashionable because everyone wants everything now. and the horses that can win now are primarily inbred mr. p line horses that arent exactly models of durability
    hope this didnt come off as disrespectful to Laura.. not my intent...whos opinions i read and respect on this board... just my personal perspective of todays racehorse and why we cant get a triple crown winner
  • carolinarkansascarolinarkansas hot springs, arkansasMember
    Optimizer ran all three TC races last yr...he finished second to Wise Dan yesterday....ran well....more could have done all three but after a loss in the derby ...lots choose to skip the preakness ..just because the owners choose not to race so frequently ...does not necessarily mean the horse is unsound ....a large part of it is how horses are managed today as opposed to the way things use to be...
  • carolinarkansascarolinarkansas hot springs, arkansasMember
    Just saw on another thread...only Orb and 3 others....that's 4 of 19... from the derby will run in the preakness
  • LyndaKLyndaK Member
    Blood Horse has article that only Orb, Oxbow, Will Take Charge and Golden Scents will be headed to the Preakness. Departing and Heat Press who did not run in the Derby will be headed to the Preakness. Heat Press is a Malibu Moon colt.

    This may leave room for the fillies such as Dreaming of Julia, who has been rumored to be going to the Preakness. I would love to see her redeem herself after the miserable start she had in the Oaks and still put in a gallant effort to come in 4th after almost being knocked down.

  • RachelRachel Member
    also possibles are: Fear The Kitten, Ballermine, Governor Charlie, Mylute, Itsmyluckyday. Normandy Invasion is undecided at the moment.
  • LyndaKLyndaK Member
    In the Nature series on PBS there was a program last week about the legendary Lipizzan stallions. Some of you might find it interesting to hear how the Austrian National Stud has run their breeding program for centuries since the breed was introduced. While some of their program would not be practical for Thoroughbreds, there are some things they do that could be implemented into American programs.

  • LyndaKLyndaK Member
    Trainer Chad Brown said fourth-place finisher Normandy Invasion would be returned to his home base at Belmont Park and would then decide on the next move. He said the ultimate goal with the son of Tapit is the Travers Stakes (gr. I).

    "He came out of the race really well," Brown said. "I got a beautiful trip. He (Javier Castellano) gave me a great ground-saving trip in the first turn. I thought down the backside he made an excellent decision to stay off the rail and get out in the three or four path. At that point he identified Verrazano and figured I've got a live horse to follow just through the few holes that were ahead of him.

    "When the cadence quickened, he went with him and I looked like the winner at the top of the lane," Brown said. "I would say at the eighth pole or sixteenth pole is when he got a little rubber-legged. I thought he was courageous in defeat and fought to the end. He just missed third there and he galloped out of it a little bit."

    Brown said he and owner Rick Porter agreed the Preakness was not in the plan for Normandy Invasion

  • Paniolo_GalPaniolo_Gal Member
    edited May 2013
    Sorry to go back to the William Nack article I submitted earlier about thoroughbred inbreeding, today's foals being too pampered, race horses put to stud after less than 10 races, and the use of modern drugs, etc., but while reading his article...I couldn't help but reflect on ourselves and what we've created in our own population.

    a. In royalty past, with so much in-breeding to keep their lineage pure...Royals created a group that was more fragile. Hemophilia was one of the results.
    b. In years gone by...children would normally play and rough house outside in the dirt. They had better auto-immune systems, less allergies. Today, our kids tend to live a more sheltered, anti-bacterial conscious society. Allergists will attest that there is a tremendous increase in juvenile allergies.
    c. Today, children are so involved with computers and texting each other, they become less socially involved, and less interested in doing physical hardwork. Scientists will attest that weight bearing physical activites while young will help strengthen bone density for later years. Thank god for smart parents today who get their children involved in athletic sports. But the children of past as a whole did more physical hard work/chores. Farm children in the past were overall hardier.
    d. Marketing of junk foods by major corporations (i.e. beverages loaded with sugar and processed foods)...resulted in 1/3 of today's American youth suffering from obesity. Obesity that is linked to juvenile diabetes.

    The conclusion I'm trying to make is we not only have affected the racing industry with today's trends to create a more marketable horse...we're also leaving a potentially weakened population in our future generation(s).

    Please...This is only a generalized personal observation and not meant to insult anyone of you at all. Just something for us to think about.
  • kurtkurt Member
    PANI- cant be offended or insulted by facts..truth is truth, agree with it 100%.. i wont go a rant about work ethic of young people but..yah..good post
  • I agree with all of the above, which is exactly what I posted. Thank-you so much for the link Paniolo Gal. I hate to keep bringing up Seattle Slew, but there has been more then one documentary that referred to his legs as tree trunks, even though his right front was a little crocked (I think from a paddock accident, when he was young) it's easy to see on a front angle, with him running in the front, WHERE HE ALWAYS WANTED TO BE. Zenyatta also has good strong legs; good reason to breed her to others with good strong legs, and good conformation; just look at the conformation and legs of our little red prince. We already know how well they managed Zenny; maybe they could be the start of a new movement. They had a good strong mare, gave her time, and look what she did for her human connections, and look what she did for racing! Now Zenyatta is working on helping the breed. Go Zenyatta, the perfect one!! When she was on Sixty Minutes, the announcer said, that he had never seen anything so exquisite, AS SHE STOOD THERE POSING, WHICH SHE LIKED TO DO! Just a footnote, Alysheba was at his best at 4; setting track records, and winning everything. Jack Van Berg said, if he raced at five nobody would ever have beat him again. THE MOSSES ARE EXACTLY WHAT THE BREED, AND RACING NEED!!
  • hey, just wanted to let you know I am not ignoring you and will respond to comments. I've been busy. Toodle-oo.
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