If ONLY just one time..

edited May 2013 in General Interest
hope this link shows up; I have always thought the beautiful Zenyatta has the looks of, and would cross wonderfully with a great Hanoverian stallion, and I think I found the one. Imagine this:

I know she is bred for racing, but this fellow and Zenny would blow the horse world up.

Comments

  • Devon Heir really reminds me of the famed dressage champion...Totilas (formerly Moorlands Totilas) a Trakehner x KWPN Dutch Warmblood. We were just discussing Totilas in marestare today.
    btw...only a dream pairing of course but...How tall is Devon Heir? If he's as tall as Totilas (17.1 hh) then Zenyatta x Devon Heir would create a very, very large baby! Devon Heir IS a Beautiful stallion however!
  • wow
  • LyndaKLyndaK Member
    Thank you Ruffian and I agree with you, a cross between Zenyatta and Devon Heir would be a dream horse. Zenyatta, IMHO, has the athleticism and the movement to be a dressage horse herself.

    I have Facebook friends who breed dressage horses and jumpers and they sometimes outcross to Thoroughbreds. Arabians and Thoroughbred crosses make some impressive sport horses as well.

    One friend was just commenting the other day that she loves the Secretariat line cross breds to the dressage breeds, that they are very intelligent and known for being so easy to train.

    We are hoping that the Storm Cat granddaughter that is in our "family" will be bred this year with the Arabian stallion in the "family" that goes back to the foundation sire for one of my best friends sport horse breeding program with Arabians.

    Just to be able touch a colt or a filly from that cross would be my dream come true.

    Zenyatta and I would add Rachel, are living proof that you can have an intelligent champion racehorse that has a strong and athletic conformation.

    There are several Thoroughbred stallions that many of us would love to breed our sport horse mares to, but we cannot afford the stud fees. I have looked around for several years for a standing Secretariat line stallion, but all of them are way, way out of my price range.

    If we are lucky, maybe the Mosses will read this and give thought to one such breeding for Zenyatta. What a legacy she would leave for the sport horse breed and a demonstration of what a unique mare she is, outside of her race career. LOL, one can only dream.

  • Absolutely breathtaking.
  • WOW beyond beautiful!
  • edited May 2013
    I thought you all would get the WOW factor I did from Devon Heir! As soon as I got a look at Zenny's conformation and her leg action, I thought right away, a wonderful dressage horse she would or could make. Just look at his foals too! As I said, to have this bloodline in the sport horse field would, I think, blow the horse world UP!! :) Wish they would do that just one time. She is young enough. Glad you enjoyed that! He looks better than any TB stallion I've seen, and believe me, I've seen a lot of them. Then again..That fella named Orb is mighty fine looking..but look where and who he comes from! I wonder what color the foal would be if Zenny was bred to Devon Heir? He does seem to produce a lot of blacks and she has that in her ped. too with Kris S. being almost black. And I bet that foal would have some gorgeous markings as well!
  • ok, had to add: Just watched that video again, and the similarities of Zenny and this stallion are incredible. The neck, the chest, the bigger all around frame, even the face structure. And look at the same kind of ears too. Now I wonder, lol, if someone got into that pedigree of Vertigineaux's somewhere down the line!! LOL oh, also, the size, the Hanoverian mares can be huge as well, as big as Zenny but in their case that's the norm. I think that would be one heck of a fantastic foal.
    Also, Lynda K, you have me wondering now about something I saw a long time back, do you remember a big jumping event, was televised on prime sports channel, and it was either a pure Arabian or QH, that beat the bigger sized jumping horses? Everyone was just going crazy when that little horse showed up all those big fancy ones up. In fact, I'm wondering if this did happen twice because I could have sworn there was an Arab winning like that a few years before the QH did. Both came into the sport from previous homes too. Such great stories! :)
  • Paniolo_GalPaniolo_Gal Member
    edited May 2013
    Regarding getting a Zenyatta x Devon Heir foal...If I'm not mistaken, the horses who compete in dressage or show jumping do not have to be live covered. The famed dressage horse...Moorlands Totilas had his sperm collected and shipped to a few "select" mares elsewhere in the world including a couple in the US and the mares were artificially inseminated. In Mare Stare...we found out that one of the mares "Ala" (Trakehner) from Altamont Sport Horses had her egg flushed, fertilized and inserted into a surrogate mare. (aka Invitro fertilization) Perhaps, of course this is just a dream concept...that could be done during a year that Zenyatta is not bred because it would be a late foaling. Food for thought...:o)
    http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=6472
  • Not sure how the JC would look upon that in terms of purity after the fact. Not being able to register the foal is one thing but what about if the JC denied her her breeding privileges because?

    Aside from I don't think it's a good idea to breed a 17.1 hand horse to another 17.1 horse. It would be hell on whatever mare had to carry the baby to term. Perhaps a draftee? there might be enough room but I don't know.

    I don't know how the flush the egg thing works in tb's. I'm speaking from after that would it mess up her fertility long term? Other breeds do AI. Has this been done successfully for other tb's? Do mares only have so many eggs--once gone that's it. No more? Cause if a mare can only have so many foals--you would want to protect your investment.
  • Paniolo_GalPaniolo_Gal Member
    edited May 2013
    Not sure how the JC would look upon that in terms of purity after the fact. Not being able to register the foal is one thing but what about if the JC denied her her breeding privileges because?

    Aside from I don't think it's a good idea to breed a 17.1 hand horse to another 17.1 horse. It would be hell on whatever mare had to carry the baby to term. Perhaps a draftee? there might be enough room but I don't know.

    I don't know how the flush the egg thing works in tb's. I'm speaking from after that would it mess up her fertility long term? Other breeds do AI. Has this been done successfully for other tb's? Do mares only have so many eggs--once gone that's it. No more? Cause if a mare can only have so many foals--you would want to protect your investment.
    I think you are missing my point all together...
    We are talking about Zenyatta being bred to a dressage horse so obviously, the foal will not be eligible for the Jockey Club and this dream breeding is not intended for racing but for dressage or creating a sport horse...not a racehorse.

    Moorlands Totilas is 17.1 hh...but we were talking about a "dream breeding" to Devon Heir who is based in the US. We are not sure how tall Devon is...probably not as tall as Totilas, but remember this is only a dream concept. I am using Totilas as an example that in the Dressage world...you do not have to have a "live cover" to be a registered dressage horse, you can have artificial insemination. The surrogate mare obviously would have to be big enough to handle a potentially large foal. It's not like Zenyatta will be giving birth to the foal. You could use a Percheron for that matter as a surrogate mare.

    Mares produce eggs whenever they are in heat which is approximately once a month or less...until they are biologically unable due to age or health of the mare for whatever reason. It's not like we will be taking most of Zenyatta's eggs, just what she would be producing during a heat cycle anyway. This doesn't lessen Zenyatta's future of producing more eggs.

    But remember this is a dream mating...what I am trying to convey is that it is possible to have a Zenyatta x Devon Heir foal without Zenyatta getting involved aside from obtaining her egg(s)...and...which would otherwise take a year away from Zenyatta if she were to carry the foal...


  • Paniolo_GalPaniolo_Gal Member
    edited May 2013
    btw...Invitro Fertilization has been done to a warm blood as was indicated in one of the websites we encountered in Mare Stare...I don't see why it couldn't work with thoroughbreds...as they are the same species. It's not like you are breeding a zebra to a horse, etc. Of course as mentioned earlier...the foal would not be for racing but for a different purpose like dressage, etc.
  • and also, keep in mind, those Warmblood mares are just as big as Zenyatta, and they carry those foals juuuust fine. Zenny is more of a WB type, not a regular TB. In my earlier post, the similarities of her and this stallion are more typical, than of her and a 'normal' TB. The first time I saw Zenny this was my immediate thought. Even moreso now that she has lost that racehorse look so quickly and she even looks more like a beautiful WB mare. I know that the WB breeders will cross with the TB's on a regular basis, and many champions there. I think if there was ever a TB to add another dynasty to another line of these beautiful horses, it would be Zenny! This would not jeopardize her as far as her other TB foals, Just remember Seattle Slew and Secretariat were bred to different breeds as well and the outcome was incredible! In fact, my TB's co-owner/trainer said this when Zenny first came on the scene, and my friend has been training for over 3 decades..it would be a nice thing...hint hint hint..:)
  • Hello fellow forum friends, I just had to bring this incredible stallion up again, esp. since some of you mentioned that Zenny would possibly bred too late to re-breed in 2015. And yes, the egg flushing is indeed possible. This fellow and Zenny would produce a champion dressage/eventer horse. One can only hope...and dream. Zenny has that dressage style to her, moreso now than ever. Just had to watch this video again; this boy is amazing!! The warmblood mares are the size of Zenny, so they have no issues at all, but if flushing is needed, I'm sure they would have no problem. What a way to extend her legacy.
  • KalarKalar Member
    edited April 2014
    @RuffiantheBestEver My daughter's first comment when she saw some pics of Z is that she looked more like a WB at first glance than a thoroughbred. :) Dadburnit, I keep putting off the errand-running. I HAVE to do that now. See y'all later.
  • Is Devon Heir a thoroughbred? Can she be bred to him and have her babies registered in our Jockey club or would they have to be dressage/eventing horses?? Isn't a hanoverian a "warm blood" and not a thoroughbred?? if he is, then the offspring can't be registered as thoroughbred. Hanoverians also can be bred with artificial insemination, i think??
  • All sport horses except racehorses can be bred AI
  • Paniolo_GalPaniolo_Gal Member
    edited April 2014
    Is Devon Heir a thoroughbred? Can she be bred to him and have her babies registered in our Jockey club or would they have to be dressage/eventing horses?? Isn't a hanoverian a "warm blood" and not a thoroughbred?? if he is, then the offspring can't be registered as thoroughbred. Hanoverians also can be bred with artificial insemination, i think??
    Yes! Devon Heir is a Hanoverian stallion...a Warmblood not a thoroughbred. The resulting foal will not be eligible for the Jockey Club. Please refer to my clarification provided to Margaret above as she had the same kind of question on this concept. :oD

    Also...What a great dressage horse Zenyatta could be after her second career as a broodmare is completed. I know she would prefer to keep herself busy and not just be a lawn ornament...she's too intelligent and could get bored. Perhaps Ann could do dressage training with Zenyatta when she finally gets retired to their backyard. :oD
  • KalarKalar Member
    @Paniolo_Gal I agree with you that Z would prefer to be occupied. Dressage would be perfect at that point.
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