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My Flag

Zenny11Zenny11 Member
edited April 2014 in General Interest
The passing of My Flag from complications from foaling has bothered me. She was 21 years old. Should she still really be having children?

I know the arguments - "In the wild, horses would be having children every year until they die" But she was not a wild horse, she was a champion.

Would we or will we be okay in 10 years when Zenyatta is still having children? Should she be having children every year? (I know this discussion has come up before) My argument is that I don't like how we treat these horses as members of the family, then when it comes to breeding, we don't treat them as such.
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Comments

  • ZenyenZenyen Member
    While I understand a lot of people like to take an anthropomorphic to horses, they are 'foals', 'offspring' or 'get' not children.

    While 21 may be considered the upper end of a broodmare's career, if My Flag was healthy (and I have no doubt the vet checked her out thoroughly in 2013) then breeding her was no more a risk than breeding any mare.

    Keep in mind, Rachel Alexandra at the age of 8 had a grievous complication from foaling what was only her second foal. It had nothing to do with her age or the foal's health but she barely survived.

    Foaling is a risk and sometimes even with all the care in the world, bad luck happens. You have only to look at the comments and observations on the Mare Stare thread to see that sometimes it's a miracle and sometimes it's a heartbreak.
  • QueenZFan20QueenZFan20 Member
    1995 Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies - My Flag:
  • Zenny11Zenny11 Member
    I have a hard time believing that a 21 year old mare is the same risk as an 8 year old mare.

    And, my whole point is that we don't treat these horses as horses, we treat them as a member of our family. When I call my dog my other daughter, people don't correct me and say "she's a dog". My problem is that we treat them as a member of the family at some times, and as "just animals" when it's convenient for some.
  • RachelRachel Member
    No use creating a stink about it. She was checked over last year and deemed fit to breed. A mare will continue to be bred if healthy and she was. This was just a tragic thing to have happened
  • Joanna_TXJoanna_TX Member
    I KNEW this was going to be a stinker of a topic; it was on Bloodhorse too. I thought about this issue a few years back and have to admit to changing my mind; now agree with rachel and most knowledgeable horse folks. As long as the mare is deemed healthy, go ahead and breed 'em.
  • QueenZFan20QueenZFan20 Member
    My Flag x Bernardini colt: https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/10006622_10154040517935037_7507824665646505432_n.jpg
  • louisecastellolouisecastello Member
    Zenyen, The only reason I said anything is because I read that older mares, 20 or more, have a higher risk of hemorrhage caused by uterine artery tear or rupture because it gets weaker in an older mare. Is that true or not?
  • VA_in_CAVA_in_CA Member
    edited April 2014
    A beautiful gypsy horse (I think that was her breed) foaled over on MareStare this month and suffered a prolapsed uterus and the farm ended up losing her a day or two later. It was her first foal, she was a terrific mother, and she was only 3. She was a great favorite of the owner, too.
  • louisecastellolouisecastello Member
    Also, I am NOT creating a stink about it. I trust her connections to know what was best for her and it could have been completely unrelated to age. I know they are heartbroken for her loss,
  • RachelRachel Member
    Seems logical
  • Pepper9873Pepper9873 Member
    The thing is, there is no way to 100% tell if something bad is going to happen during a pregnancy or not. Everything in life has its risks, but if you avoid doing things because of the bad things that could happen, then life isn't going to continue. My Flag's owners at least got a vet's advice before they bred her. And it's not like she was deemed unfit for breeding, and they continued to breed her anyway. Yes, it's sad, but there was no way that anyone would have known that she was going to have complications.
  • RachelRachel Member
    Here he is, My Flags bernardini colt
    image
  • louisecastellolouisecastello Member
    Aww, sweet baby!!
  • EriNCEriNC Member
    who is the mare he is with? because she is skinny! You shouldnt be able to see a horse's ribs and hip bones like that.
  • QueenZFan20QueenZFan20 Member
    who is the mare he is with? because she is skinny! You shouldnt be able to see a horse's ribs and hip bones like that.
    I think it was My Flag before she died? And it's fairly common in TB's.
  • RachelRachel Member
    Maybe, she was 21 yrs old. If it is her it only adds to the negative comments about this situation. But older horses tend to lose weight no matter what u do. They can be completely healthy still
  • RachelRachel Member
    And the hip bones are totally pronounced. I see sway back as well
  • QueenZFan20QueenZFan20 Member
    edited April 2014
    I think it probably is then? I wonder if she was starting to get sick shortly after this pic was taken?
  • RachelRachel Member
    Probably, but she was hemoraging (bleeding enternally) for humans the cure for that would be to take the uterus out. Too bad that cant be done for horses :(
  • QueenZFan20QueenZFan20 Member
    edited April 2014
    Probably, but she was hemoraging (bleeding enternally) for humans the cure for that would be to take the uterus out. Too bad that cant be done for horses :(
    It probably could but it would be really risky. And when you consider her age and how valuable of a broodmare she was I personally wouldn't want to take the risk.
  • RachelRachel Member
    I dont think ive heard of that happening in horses
  • louisecastellolouisecastello Member
    This article has some stuff about hemorrhage in older mares and uterine prolapse that Virginia discussed earlier.
    http://performanceequinevs.com/client-education/colic/colic-and-post-partum-complications.html
  • VA_in_CAVA_in_CA Member
    Thanks for posting this louisecastello. Very interesting. Also it is badly translated from some foreign language, German or Dutch at a guess. Funny ESL kinds of mistakes. (That's my area or field, not horses, alas.)
  • RachelRachel Member
    edited April 2014
    Her 2013 filly by Bernardini has been named Sound The Trumpets
  • VA_in_CAVA_in_CA Member
    Great name.
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